"Distant Origin"
Air Date: April 30, 1997
Star Date: Unknown
Discovering the remains of a human Voyager crewmember on a volcano-riddled world, Voth scientist Gegen believes he finally has confirmation of his "distant origin" theory. According to Voth Doctrine, the Voth were the first race in the Delta Quadrant to achieve sentience and have enjoyed twenty million years of history and technological advance. Gegen believes otherwise. According to this theory, the Voth actually migrated to the Delta Quadrant from an original planet far away. Unable to gain any support for his theory even after he shows Voth Minister Odala his find of human bones--bones that clearly show a genetic similarity between humans and the Voth--Gegan sets out to find the source of the bones himself. Eventually, he discovers Voyager and soon the ship and its crew find themselves in the middle of the heated philosophical debate. Even when Odala sentences Gegen to internment, the scientist refuses the recant. But when Odala adds Janeway and crew to the list of those who will be punished and announces the destruction of Voyager itself, Gegen realizes the price is too high. He disavows his theory. Consequently, Odala lets Voyager continue its voyage--with the stern admonition that it would be best if she never saw the ship or its crew again.
Brash Reflections
Interesting idea! Not a fabulous episode. But a solid one. At least, there was enough plot to fill the hour!
Not much to pick at here in a first pass. I was amused that the computer could extrapolate the most likely course of evolution for a dinosaur and wind up with a biped. From what I understand of the theory of evolution, it's driven by random mutations. Seems pretty convenient for the folks at Paramount that the Voth just happened to be biped. Saved them a casting call to Vegan III!
I was also amused that the Voth had to go so far to find a place to settle down. There were no good worlds between Earth and the Delta Quadrant?!
Until next time!
Phil
Reflections from the Guild
Corey Hines, Hamilton, ON: If dinosaurs really did evolve into humaniods, where did they get the materials to build ships?
If dinos evolved the way we did, why did they shrink instead of growing.
Good thing the carnivious dinos didn't evolve or they would have real trouble.
Did the ancient humaniod civilization (The Chase, TNG) seed Earth with two seperate genitic codes? If it did it wouldn't have made much sense. Two seperate sentient races on a single planet.
If this is true, did the data that they took from Voyager say this as well? Then they could realize that they have connections with all the other species
Did the problem of proving this information to the public remind anyone else of Planet Of The Apes.
Paris seemed surprised that there was such a thing as a personal cloaking device. The Jem'Hadar have personal cloaks and they were around when Voyager took off.
One wonders since they had transwarp technology, they didn't discover this eariler, since they can go any where.
Since Gagon and Chakotey were such good buddies, why couldn't he loan some of that transwarp technology so Voyager can go home. I'm sure that they can handle the problem of mutation and navagation.
Was it me or did the female dino sound a lot like the female Changeling from DS9, and the image of the humaniod species from The Chase, TNG?
Ron Saarna of Toronto, Ontario: Okay, not too much to complain about this episode. I'm actually starting to look forward to upcoming episodes instead of "Oh-Oh, what are they gonna mess-up next".
However, I felt there were a few nits:
Credabilty Strain: When Chakotay tells the Saurian scientist that civilizations were lost in Earth's history, and that evidence of the Saurian's past may still lie at the bottom of the oceans, I find this a little too much. Here we have ships that can withstand the Sun's corona, yet we don't have deep-sea submersibles? I would like to think that by this time, Starfleet (or compatible Earth organization) has begun some sort of charting of the oceans of earth (considering that nasty Probe incident way back in Kirk's day from ST:IV).
And on this next nit: I'm not an evolutionary scientist or anthropologist, but how in the heck did these Saurian's develop higher technology with those hamhocks they have for fingers? On top of the incredibly large digits, they have claws! How could they have developed the dexterity to create integrated circuits along with tiny little "push buttons"?
Lastly: They found a dead crew member, dead for almost 1 year. Then they waffle for a bit with the council, and eventually the scientist heads off towards Voyager, gets a few clues from the Nekrid Expanse station, and catch up to it really quickly. Fine, they have access to Transwarp and all it's capabilities, but why doesn't Janeway (or at least Chakotay, seeing as the scientist's ship is right with them at the end) ask for the secrets of safe Transwarp? I'm sure the scientist wouldn't be difficult to convince, seeing as it might lead to Voyager's getting home within months (as opposed to 70 years) and his proof would be impossible to refute (once a fleet of Starship vessels reappeared back in Voth space).
Oh yeah, glad to see that Neelix had even less to do this episode than the last.(I'm not bitter, just relieved)
Chris Booton: This weeks was a very interesting episode.
When the scientist is looking at the remains of Hogans bod on the planet from basics part 1 & 2 there is no sign of that beast that killed him, even though the remains are in a cave. Perhaps the beast was killed in that volcanic eruption.
The scientist indentifies that the remains are from someone who died more than a year ago, yet the episode Basics part 2 took place 8 (almost 9) months before this one, even if one season 1 year this still isn't very close, if this episode took place in september it would be more acurate.
On hogans torn uniform there is an encryption of "Uss Voyager" this creates 2 nits;The first one is how could he read english let alone our writing? Did he have some sort of translater that could also translate writing. Also never before have I heard of this before, perhaps it has always been there but why was it never mentioned? (Note from Phil: This is an interesting nit because at this point, Gegen has only a handful of letters of our writing and he can translate?)
When he arives at the space station just ahead of the Nekrid expance he is able to talk to the people inside and they show him a tricorder a combadge and some of voyagers warp plasma! Why would they leave these behind? Isn't that a prime directive violation.
The warp plasma is supossed to be from voyager but if I recall corectly this is the plasma nelix used to set up that bad guy alien when Voyager was at that station wasent it from another ship? It was not pure like voyagers would have been it was contaminated! So why is voyagers warp plasma there? (I guess this could be call a CHTMTPF (Changing History To Move The Plot Forward) or a CISTMTPF (Creating Imposible Situations To Move The Plot Forward)) ie Voyager leaving those things behind
The two guys seem to think that everyone on voyager is human. Certainly their sensors would tell them other wise.
After the scientists assistant is caught and taken to sickbay he seems to be talking in his own launguage. How come The Universal Translater did not work? It did fine for the other guys (Note from Phil: I think the assistant was just making clicking noises because he was afraid.)
If the holodeck can predict evolutionary delevopment as acuratly as it did then why did they not use it in "threshold" to prove finally that paris was truly evolving (or mutating to a super evolved form in that case)
Other wise besides the nits this was a really good episode that really makes you think twise about our being the only evolved life ever on earth to become like this. A definite one to remember.
Murray Leeder: Very impressive... I'd say among Voyager's best. Not without nits, though. But there were some very very nice touches too.
Was hadrosaurus really the most highly advanced dinosaur? Surely there must be a paleantologist out there somewhere.
Wasn't Hogan in rather better condition than you might expect from someone who'd been eaten by a worm?
Before this evidence arose, wasn't the distance origin theory just pretty much another completely unsupported theory? So what's the point?
Who were these traders who knew the location of the cave?
Neelix only got one line! Hoo-hoo!
Brian O'Marra, Little Rock, AR: Interesting episode!! This looks like Voyager meets Jurassic Park. This reiterates the theme that dinosaurs are more advanced than we thought. These Volths (?) managed to get out in the Delta Quandrant and then find the Voyager very fast!!
On with the nits....
One thing that bothers me with the Voyager series so far is the liberal use of the universal translator. While I understand that subtitles get annoying week after week, this series stretches it way too far!!
Let me explain...The universal translator was totally ineffective in the Star Trek TNG episode "Darmok." The reason? The metaphoric language of the Tamarians was too complex, too foreign. And this race was in the Alpha Quadrant!! Yet, way out in the Delta Quadrant, encountering races that have NEVER been seen before, the universal translator works like a charm!! True, subtitles would be a problm week after week, but in "Real Life" Torres is reading a Klingon romance novel, Paris interrupts her, she turns off her padd, Paris picks it up and begins reading it!! Did she read Klingon literature from her own world translated in English?? If so, why??
This brings me to this episode...The Volths (I hope I spelled it okay!!) occupy the first quarter of the show. No Voyager crew around, and no universal translator. Remarkably, they speak English!! If they came from Earth and evolved from dinosaurs (as this episode suggests) on a separate continent millions of years ago, and drifted way way out in the Delta Quadrant, how did they learn Modern English???
Steven Perry: Another excellent episode, though I can't help but think this would have been a better TNG one - refer to the episode "First Contact."
"Heresy" is primarily defined as something contrary to religious doctrine. I realize they wanted to couch this in religious terms (Head Voth wore the papal red) and by doing so insert science in its place somewhat, but surely a better word could have been used.
The biggest problems surround the fact that 1)No evidence of the Voth existed on Earth and 2)It took them a 70 year journey at warp to find a suitable home. We know they didn't have transwarp at that time, so how did they go so far?
If dinosaurs were to evolve, at least according to my friend, they'd likely be warm-blooded and somewhat thin like a bird. But they did cover their bases well I will admit.
Of course, is you're phased out of real space, they can't see you - but you shouldn't be able to see them either.
Kudos for at least attempting to get around the Universal Translator, though sometmes I wondered if they said the same thing over and over again.
They had such great knowledge of mammals, but wouldn't that be a fairly narrow definition of a species specifically on Earth?
Was it just me or did that dart seem somewhat techologically backward compared to good ol' phasers?
If they know these saurians are aboard, why not fire a couple of low level shots down the hall to clear the deck?
Looks like we finally did get to see the Nekrit Expanse again!
Next week: "Hey, hey, hey - Goodbye?"
Michael Apple: I LOVED this episode! Wow! From the preview it didn't look that great, but it actually ended up being awesome. The whole dinosaur thing was handled really well. (They even got the devonian lizard right.) And the choice to have the teaser and first act from the dino-people's perspective was really good. It was funny when they were watching the "courtship" behavior between Paris and Torres. :)
Anyway, here's the nits I saw:
Paleontology has always been an interest of mine, so I know quite a bit about dinosaurs. The Voth in this episode are supposedly descended from hadrosaurs (the duck-billed dinosaurs.) I thought that was funny because according to fossilized remains, hadrosaurs were about as smart as cows. :) It would have made a lot more sense if these people had evolved from the "smart" dinos, like velociraptor or deinonychus. Their brain capacity was far greater than that of the hadrosaur.
How did the Voyager computer extrapolate the possible evolution of hadrosaurs so quickly? There are so many factors in evolution that it should have taken hours, if not days! I guess they're just that good. :)
The Voth use some kind of technology to take the weapons systems off- line. We've seen Janeway manually launch photon torpedoes before, so why didn't Paris at least TRY it?
A non-nit: When the inquisition scene appeared, I was a little worried that the creators would use it as another oportunity to take a cheap shot at religion, but luckily they spared us. It's about time that they acknowledged that it's *people* who cause problems, not concepts, like religion.
George Padovan of Bridgewater, NJ: From the preview, I thought this will be another bad episode. I was *wrong*. This was GREAT!!! (smile)
It was great to see a story mostly from the another people's point of view, instead of Voyager's. Great to see a story focus on another morale point that expresses us as a people - fear of change.
This was the *first* Voyager episode where I was routing for the dinosaur scientist and his assistant *not* to get caught by Voyager's crew. My heart was pounding thinking that Voyager's crew could look like the bad guys. Great...supper...episode!
5/5/97 Update
Evan Lorentz of Littleton, CO: The Voth are remarkably unadvanced technologically, given that they've had 65 MILLION YEARS since they developed *faster-than-light* travel to continue
developing. I would expect an essentially Q-like race by that point. Look at
the developments humans have made in, say, just the past 65 years. Can you
even begin to fathom multiplying that 1,000,000 times?
And despite any "doctrine," I can't believe there weren't more receptive
people willing to hear the theory. If our human technology (vastly inferior
to the Saurians') can concretely prove the link between the two species by
just spending 3 minutes in a holodeck, I'd imagine the Voth's could turn out
incontrevertable evidence. Unless, of course, our crew was wrong, too. ;-)
Okay, let's check our experience with Transwarp drive. When Tom Paris broke
the Transwarp threshhold, he occupied EVERY point in the universe
simultaneously. His shuttlecraft returned with readings from all over the
universe -- crammed to capacity. Now, one of the aliens' tricorders snatched
Voyager's ENTIRE computer databank almost instantly, so obviously they've
got a greater storage capacity. If they've been flying around at Transwarp
for any length of time, it's reasonable to conclude they'd have some info
gathered about Earth. Now, I can accept that with all that gathered
knowledge, it's possible no one had looked at it yet. But the good Professor
should have stopped to run a comparison with the human skeleton he found --
and he would have found his match.
Erin Hunt of High Point, NC: Once Voyager leaves, what's to stop the dino scientist from restating his "heretical" (snicker, snicker) claims?
I found that head Voth woman so monumentally irritating that I couldn't
help hoping that when Voyager gets home, they open a space/time warp or
something and bring a whole fleet of ships back to kick butt.
Incidentally, doesn't the Voth woman's attitude remind you of the
attitude of the Changeling woman (also monumentally irritating) on DS9?
Joseph Pintar of New Hartford, NY: Here are a few thoughts on tonight's episode of Voyager. Good episode but again the commercials were deceitful. I was expecting the crew
running for their lives from wild dinosaurs! Speaking of those commercials,
did they feel
like they were more appropriate to Sliders instead of Voyager? The commercial
feels like "the Voyager lands on the planet of the dinosaurs" like a Sliders
commercial would say.
Anyway, the premise of this episode, that these lizard men descended
from dinosaurs. Does this sound like the premise for the movie Super Mario
Bros.? I know I am one of only 5 people who actually saw that movie (and
were probably the same 5 people who was watching this instead of Ellen's
coming out of the closet episode) so it might be difficult to verify.
Do these lizard men remind anyone of the Narn from Babylon 5?
David D. Porter: Hogan may be dead, but he's not *completely* forgotten!
When that scientist picked up the skull and started talking to it, I
couldn't help but expect something along the lines of "Alas, poor Yorick..."
Hey! Did B'Elanna decide she didn't like the longer hair and braid she
sported last week?
How did Chakotay know those genetic markers appeared in hundreds of Earth
species? Wasn't that determined after his abduction? If he and Gagen
duplicated that research, we didn't see it.
Now I'm waiting for Galileo, er, Gagen, to say, "And yet it moves."
Gagen did not recant well. He should have said something along the lines
of, "If these people will be allowed to go, I will disavow my research." As it
was, he gave in without any promises from the Minister.
Josh Truax of Platteville, WI: Frankly, I didn't care for this episode too much. I thought it was as if they had just taken the script for "First Contact" [TNG] (not to be confused with
Star Trek: First Contact) and gave it a quick rewrite for Voyager. (In
other words, it's a classic SSDS.) Usually I don't mind when the creators
reuse the same general premise of an episode from one series for an episode
of another series, because they usually manage to put a different spin on
the story in the "remake." Unfortunately, they didn't this time. It was
the same story with no new twists; even the ending was basically the same
as "First Contact."
Another reason I didn't care for it was the way the Voyager crew was
treated in the story. Nobody from Voyager had any meaningful role; it was
as if they were all just along for the ride. Don't get me wrong; I don't
generally dislike the idea of storytelling from an outsider's perspective.
In fact, some episodes of this variety, such as the aforementioned "First
Contact," are among my favorites. But it's one thing to tell a story from
an outsider's point of view, and another to relegate the central characters
of the series to secondary status...
Now that I've gotten all that off my chest, on to the nits. Actually, on
to the nit, because I only have one that doesn't also apply to "First
Contact." (Like I said, same story...)
Early on in the series (I forget the episode), I recall the crew count
being quoted as 141. They've lost some crew members along the way, so
presumably that number should be even smaller now, right? Well, according
to the Voth scientists in this episode, there are now 148 people aboard
Voyager. This means one of three things: 1) The incredible technology
employed by the Voth still managed to badly miscount the number of people
on board, 2) there's been a *lot* more procreation going on aboard Voyager
than the creators have let on, or 3) Voyager has already begun to pick up
new people along the way to augment the crew, as I had speculated in one of
my nits for "Before and After"...
Bob Sabatini: I knew that these guys came from Earth as soon as the scientest read the
microscoipc "USS VOYAGER" Because it was in roman letters.
At first, when we saw the voth (SP?) ship, It apeared slighly smaller
than Voyager, then the next time we saw it, It had grown.
That's all I have for nits, but I have one comment. I wonder what the deal
with B'ellana's new hair last week was. I'm glad that was a fluke thing
and hope we never see it like it was in "real life" again.
Craig Cicero: Good episode! (Although I wonder if the Voth will ever appear again..)
Only a few nits (and they are "picky"!).
(Regarding the HYSTERICAL "Come this May... Come what may" preview):
Were any "lost worlds" conquered?
MO
About the claws.... No real problem (I think)- claws COULD be precise than
tweezrs or similar tools.. AND they could be used for other things... like
writing (see the Kzinti of Larry Niven's Known Space series, for example), or
cutting, I guess. In any event, they'd be used to it! They'd probably wonder
about finger and toenails (which, I recall, evolved to suit tree-dwellers-
and we don't know which- if any- dinos were arboreal).
The dinos don't HAVE to be directly evolved from hadrosaurs.. Someone with
more knowledge may be able to refute this, but the pre-Voth could've been at
about our level of technology, and biped, maybe there aren't enough fossils
of their recent ancestors. Then, when they learned of the "Disaster," they
could've initaiated a "crash" exodus (like in When Worlds Collide or the
computer game Outpost).
Also, they've had at least 65 MILLION years to get to the DQ. Apparently
they don't live on planets (cityships), so they could be nomadic or just
distrustful of planets (I mean, think about EVERYTHING that can go wrong with
a planet- quakes, weather, stellar flares, asteroid impacts- a fleet of ships
COULD be safer).
Why am I making excuses for this episode? 'Cause I liked it! I like the use
of new sets and non-regular characters, as well as links with earlier shows.
Still, I'd like to coin a new acronym (if it hasn't already been invented):
SBATP (Shoulda Been A Two-Parter!).
I also enjoyed the Voth figues of speech ("Your true scales are showing,"
"Eyes open," etc.).
Odd how all known intelligent species are of roughly human size and shape
(except Founders, yeah).
One last thing (or two, maybe). When the Lawgiver (the judge/leader dino
woman) called for Vir to testify against Gegen, at first, I though the
as-yet-unidentified person was Ferengi! I immediately flashed back to "False
Profits," and wondere "What?" Then I saw it was Vir. Spoiled a funny moment!
Matthew Chiappardi of Hamilton, NJ: Not bad, I guess the old warm blooded, cold blooded debate has been solved.
I find it difficult to believe that a species can create an order
industrious, information, finally faster than light speed technology and
not permeate the entire planet with its influence. Wouldn't there be at
least something to tip us offf there was a whole civilization that came
before us. If the earth was so devastated we'd loose everything
including the fossil record.
With all the clicking I was beginning to think the Volt were the aliens
we saw in 'The Swarm' early this season, in fact my jury's still out on
that one. Any thoughts?
We've always seen Janeway in the past as a self-destruct when the going
gets rough advocate. Why didn't she try it this time?
If the Volt have such incredible transwarp abilties, why haven't we run
into them before. Just lucky I guess.
I wonder if the Volt ever ran into the Borg, would be a pretty mean
fight.
Why did Janeway and HoloDoc have to go over to the holodeck to see
recreations of old earth life when they couldn't have used the computer
with less energy (and the creators could have saved themselves the
special fx budget a bit). Does Janeway have a flair for the dramatic?
Does she miss her holonovel? Did they stay around and watch a 300 year
old copy of "Jurassic Park"?
Finally, the scene in the beginning with the dinosaurs looking over
human bones spread across the table was a nice touch. Normally we see
humans doing it to dinosaurs instead.
Until next week when we all diss...
Christine Henry: Well, what do you know. Just when we all thought Hogan had given up the
ghost, he returns to haunt us again:) (BTW, noone ever did think to ask for
his bod back, did they? Poor Hogan's destined to be a museam exhibit...)
Anyway, I really enjoyed this episode. It's nice to have a single
plotline that actually holds itself up well while capturing your interest,
and the viewpoint from the Voth's side (making Voyager look mean, for once)
was neat. I just wish ALL episodes would be like those in during sweeps.
You'd think with Voyager's rather undeserved reputation for destruction
would have reached these guys' ears. Since they seem to control a large
regions of space, they would be the ones interested in any strange rumors
floating about.
I loved the part where Gegen described Janeway as the matriarch of
the ship :)
Anyone care to theorize why the Voth became so small? The hadrosaurs
they descended from (Parasaurolophus was the species they showed), are a
*lot* larger than that holodeck model, ranging anywhere from 10-50 feet long
and some weighing in at three tons or more. From what I know of human
evolution, we grew from rodents weighing a few ounces to primates over a
hundred pounds. What gives? Could the new planet have stunted their growth in
some way?
The scene inside the city-ship seemed vaguely reminicint of the V'ger
entity.
I would think it more prudent for the Voth to run Voyager out of the
sector as quickly as possible, instead of having the crew hanging about for
the next few decades in a prison camp as evidence. And since they couldn't
seem to decide on the origin theory, why not have a mediator from another
race take a look at the evidence and make a judgement?
The Voyager crew should have learned by now; keep a knife, club, or
some other brute-force weapon handy in case the ship gets boarded, during
which technology inevitably seems to fail;)
One last observation; Odala, at least, has eyelashes! Now, *why* would a
dino have those?!
Alex Otis: This was a great episode. It was an excellent idea for the point of view of
the Saurians. The writers redeem themselves every so often.
Though we don't know much about Trans-Warp, why did they need to worry about
passing them, they're at every point in the Universe. They could just tell the computer to
stay behind Voyager.
This is Galileo all over again. Galileo discovered the Earth was round and was
sentenced to death for herecy. He denounced his claims on execution day and was set
free.
Trevor Ruppe: I'm going to send you these nits anyway, even though I'm sure you and
everyone else have already thought of them all. Why? Because this was a
typical Brannon Braga story: quite enjoyable to watch until you actually
start *thinking* about it, at which point it all collapses under its own
nonsense. For example:
How could the "dinosaurs" read the word "Voyager" in the uniform fabric,
since the word was obviously in English? Can you read Arabic letters (a
bunch of squiggly symbols)--even if you had a universal translator that had
never seen Arabic before? Similarly, the "dinosaurs" call themselves
"Saurians"! What a neat coincidence that they call themselves the exact
same word humans invented some 60 million years later!
Why would a one-year-dead genetic relative (the skeleton) prove that they
themselves came from a distant planet? Couldn't it just as easily prove
that one year ago one of their kind performed some nasty genetic
experiments? (Even Federation medical technology can temporarily alter the
physical and genetic appearance of a human--see various episodes.) Where
did they get the idea that they came from a distant planet in the first
place? Ancient myth? Collective unconscious?
This genetic skeleton would be a fine enough idea except for one
thing--this is STAR TREK, where every single one of the hundreds of
similar-looking humanoid alien species can mate/interbreed with all of the
hundreds of other similiar-looking humanoid alien species! The "dinosaurs"
probably share that much DNA with half the races in the Delta Quadrant!
(This was all explained in TNG: "The Chase")
Gaigan and Vir couldn't beam off the ship because of the containment
field--and just moments later, Gaigan was able to beam off with Chakotay,
through the Voyager's shields. Hmm. Why didn't the crew put up a
containment field in the new location once they had tracked down the aliens
again? I know: it didn't work the first time so why bother. But... why are
containment fields stronger that the ship's shields!? I thought containment
fields *were* shields! Maybe the Voyager would be safer if it put itself in
a big containment field?
So the dinosaurs survived the K-T extinction and evolved on an isolated
island that was completely wiped out later. Yeah, right. And no evidence
has been found in the next 300 years of archaeology, geology, and
oceanography. This is not a problem, of course, if the dinosaurs invented
transwarp as their first space technology--then they could immediately warp
away from Earth, leaving behind only one island of evidence. Unfortunately,
they would most likely have to do what we will have to do: build lunar
bases, build outposts on Mars and maybe even on moons of the outer planets.
And somebody somewhere within the next 300 years would have found
*something*. (It would almost make more sense to say that the Borg visited
Earth, scooped up a whole island of non-sentient dinosaurs and took them
back to the Delta Quadrant and let them evolve *there*.)
Finally, we have proof that the Federation doesn't update other Starfleet
crews on what happens to their fellow explorers. Case in point: Tuvok is
surprised at the idea of a "personal phase-cloak." Never mind the fact that
Data used one in "Time's Arrow" or that Geordi and Ro experienced it in "The
Next Phase" or that a phase-cloaking device was used on "The Pegasus" or...!
I loved it. One of the bridge crew (Harry I think) says "All systems are
shutting down!" Except the red alert indicators, of course. Never mind
keeping life support running, guys, make sure every dying of asphyxiation
knows it's a red alert situation! Obvious, Energizer batteries still exist
in the future, because those red alert lights keep going and going and going.
Forgive me but I have to. WIVRON: "Relics" (ship trapped inside
artificial world) and especially "PLANET OF THE APES" (scientist on trial
with sample member of an alien species that he is using as evidence of the
correctness of his own theory). This can even be taken to the point of the
similarity of character names. Vir=Zira. Gaigan=Galen (the scientist that
Roddy McDowell played in the TV series, not the movies).
Finally, for next week's episode, I want to nominate a "great lines"
entry. Namely, the background music used in the preview for the episode:
"Kiss Him Goodbye." You know, "Nana Na Na, Hey, Hey, Hey, Goodbye." Go
back and listen to it again if you missed it. Great touch! Kudos to the
Creators!
Lisa Solinas: Wonderful! Beauteous! I loved it!
To Chris Booton: the imperfect warp plasma exploded. Remember?
Gagin says "the Council of ElderS" [emphasis mine]. So why do we only see the Dragon
Lady? [The actress does, in fact, do a fabulous job as Odalla. But, of course, she also does
a great job as the female changeling.]
Not a nit: I thought, well.... I thought that Hogan's head wound [ie: third of his skull
bashed in] would be different. Given the mouth of the Worm-from-Hell's giant mouth, I'd
think poor Hogan wouldn't have any skull left.
Uh, that little metal sliver Chakotay was stuck with looks like the darts from DS9.
Evidently Tuvok was lying and replicators can produce uniforms [and I thought Vulcans
never lied].
Some parts of the episode raise questions that are never answered. What is "doctrine"? What
happened in the back room with the assistant? I could go on and on.....
Uh, it seems kind of dumb to put "USS ______" on your uniform.You'd have to fiddle with your
uniform if you were transferred a lot.
Great line: Gagin asks Hogan's skull what can you tell us?
Brian O'Marra? The Voth presumably have a translator of their own. Everybody does.
I'm fuzzy on why many of the Voth females look so much different from the males. I don't
think that the males and females of the ancient dinos had so many different characteristics.
After Chakotay gets stuck, he wakes up on a metal bed. The cranks on the sides indicate
that
it can be adjusted any way. It's cranked almost vertical. No chest, neck, waist, or knee
restraints. Uh, wouldn't our dear beloved Commander Chakotay end up on the floor?
Harvey H. Kitzman, Jr.: My wife and I enjoyed this episode. It looked stupid last week
(classic PAL), but was done rather well. Very Roddenberry-esque, the Great
Bird of the Galaxy would have liked it.
Michael Konczewski: I enjoyed "Distant Origins" quite a bit, much more than I thought I
would after seeing the preview (PAL!). Someone gave the
cinematographer a free hand, because the camera angles were very
interesting. Lots of static talking heads at unusual angles, quick
cuts, and odd lighting gave the whole episode an anxious feeling. And
the saurian costumes were great. Did you notice (excuse me if this
sounds improper) that the female saurians had no mammary glands?
Instead, both sexes had similar shaped torsos. Good work folks.
Nittime:
The saurians kept calling the humans "endotherms" (warmblooded).
Maybe I missed something after my subscription to "Paleontology Today"
expired, but I thought that scientists were in general agreement that
dinosaurs were warmblooded, too. You see, since the dinosaurs were so
large (and I think Hadrosaur was pretty big), they had a lot of mass.
Coldblooded animals sun themselves to get warm, but they can do this
because they are small. A creature with large mass would have to sit
in the sun all day to get warm. Not very practical.
The Saurian scientists were sure lucky that no one walked into them
while they were cloaked. Tom Paris just missed smacking into them in
Engineering.
And speaking of cloaked, is this something like what happened in the
ST:TNG episode, "The Next Phase"? Either way, how did the Saurians
move around the ship? The only way to use the elevators would be to
wait for someone else to call a car.
I guess Voyager doesn't have a security crew. Otherwise, why send
Tuvok, Chakotay et al from the bridge to the mess hall. I was
surprised the Saurians were still there. Are the elevators in Voyager
that fast?
Okay, these Saurians are extremely advanced: they have transwarp
drive, superpowered interphasic cloaking device, the ability to
override all of Voyager's operating systems, an energy damping
field--and they use these cheap, handmade blowgun darts for weapons!?!
And the darts don't seem to do much but make the dartee stiffen up and
act goofy. I guess if you have everything else, you don't need much
hand to hand weaponry (of course, Paris took out a dino with one
punch, so they're not so tough after all).
Speaking of Tom Paris, brilliant move Lt. You manage to escape, get
the cloaking device, override the override, you're all set to fire
photon torpedos, and what do you do? You announce to the bad guys
what your intentions are! Excuse me, but does Starfleet train all its
officers to be obsessively polite? These aliens attacked you--FIGHT
BACK! "I'm sorry, but if it's not too much trouble, would you mind
very much if I shot at you? Thank you so much."
The Doctor sounded very stilted when reeling off all the facts on
dinosaurs. Maybe because he was accessing information from a
non-medical database? Whatever the reason, it was not up to Robert
Picardo's usual excellent performances.
Once again, "power systems are off-line," but there are lights and the
computer screens are flickering. Harry should have added, "but
dramatic effect power is still functional."
BTW, I was proud of the directors for the climactic scene. Chakotay
made his stirring speech, and it had no effect whatsoever on the
Saurian leader. Yeah! I know this violates Gene Roddenberry's Prime
Directive ("Stirring speeches will always save the day"), but it made
for a more realistically dramatic ending.
I hope while Chakotay was browsing through the Saurian's database that
he read the schematics for the transwarp drive.......
Of course, I'll bet that there will never be another metion of the
cloaking device that the crew "liberated" from the Saurian scientist.
Brian Lombard: How is it that Hogan's bones and uniform were found together?
Chakotay said he was going to use the uniform to make water. (Basics,
Part II).
And what about the inhabitants of the Hanon planet? Where were
those guys while the aliens were searching the caves?
As the Dinos search for Voyager, they first head to the Nekrit
Expanse, as seen in "Fair Trade", then we see them talking with the
Tac-Tac guy from "Macrocosm". How come they didn't find the Tac-Tac
first? "Macrocosm" occured before "Fair Trade".
I assume everyone caught the 47 Holo-Doc mentioned in sickbay.
Another non-crunch "yes maam" from Paris.
Shane Tourtellotte: "Distant Origin" is perhaps the best Voyager episode yet, but it suffers
from stretching credulity about a race fleeing 70000 light-years to a
new home. If would have been better still as a NextGen episode, but
that option disappeared a while ago. Oh well.
The director's choice of camera angles was strange throughout. A lot of upward and downward
shots, and some too-close close-ups of Chakotay during the trial.
The first time we see Hogan's reamins on the examining table, Gegen is reconstructing his
left hand. When he appears before Her Scaliness, the remains don't have a left hand, but
the right hand is there.
Note how the face of the Nekrid Expanse station manager is quickly hidden by the container
of warp plasma. I'm guessing it wasn't the same actor.
The Doctor reports minor phaser burns on Vir's chest, but the shot that burned him didn't
scorch his clothing.
Kes also suffers BIMOL Syndrome: "I'll run a microcellular scan."
Chakotay's tattoo is blurry in this episode. Especially when he wakes up on Gegen's ship,
it looks like it was drawn on with an old, fuzzy Magic Marker.
Chakotay describes transwarp as an 'incredible achievement' -- one that Voyager managed to
make, more or less, on its own. Not so incredible. I think he's seriously buttering up Her
Scaliness.
You'd think 24th-century technology could produce a better globe of Earth. It's coasts are
lumpy and inaccurate; it drops several Great Lakes. If you plead "environmental
catastrophe" for changing the landscape, it must have been an awful catastrophe. (Something
that might wipe out New Zealand, for example. Remember ST-FC? Wink.)
One overall nit. The Voth are manifestly a very old, advanced, and powerful race. One
would think they'd rule the quadrant by now, or at least have bumped up hard against other
races … like the Kazon, or the Krinnim, or THE BORG-Borg-borg-borg ….
J. Annelin Cold Lake AB: When the ship gets taken into the Voth mother ship all systems go out
including the lighting but when we see the shot of Voyager inside the Voth
ship all the lights are on.
Also didn't the Voth know that Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant? They found
Hogan's bones on the planet Voyager visited about a year ago and they
retraced it's path until they found it so they were in the same area as
Voyager but didn't know about them until now? Don't they have DNN (Delta
News Network) to find out who's new in the neigbourhood? I guess this is a
case of alien of the week.
Lisa Solinas: Best line: "Did your eyes see the world of our origin? Was it.... beautiful? Was it covered
by oceans? Were there nine moons over your head, or none?"--Gagin to Hogan's skull.
The sight of a naked Voth was enough to put me off food for a lifetime.
There's a KMYF moment, as Janeway approaches the Hadrosaur.
Great moment: Gagin looking at the tiny black globe Chakotay gave him with obvious awe as
the show ends.
The Hadrosaurs [which weren't all that smart] apparently had blunt digits only a few inches
long [I'm speaking about the hologram]. But, then where did the claws on the fingers come
from?
Sometimes Neelix cracks me up. Reptilian invaders [okay, I know, they weren't invading] have
infiltrated the ship, and are hiding in the mess hall, and he has this goofy expression on
his face, saying "Really? I don't see any intruders...." And this guy was destined to become
a security officer?
Where's the Worm? Maybe the Voth killed it. And where are the natives?
Janeway plays Ms.-Science-Officer again. She summons up the computer and asks it for the
cold-blooded ancestor of warm-blooded/cold-blooded creatures. The computer replies that
there is one entry. Then Janeway has to ask for a holographic picture. Then she asks for the
most highly evolved saurian. The computer says there's an entry. Janeway has to ASK again! This is absurd. A person could talk him/herself hoarse trying to get a picture from the
computer. Whatever happened to "user-friendly"?
Chris Crawford of New Mexico: Upon reviewing my tape of 'Distant Origin', I came across a nit.
Exactly, when Paris is beaming into engineering, what kind of weird
transport beam is that? Or is that one of those interphasic thingies
that the saurians had. (Note from Phil: I think Tom was using the interphasic thing!)
[Jwb52z]: [Concerning Corey Hines of Hamilton, ON's question on about the Jem'Hadar having personal cloaking devices,] according to
what I observe about them I thought that their ability to become invisible
was a genetically programmed ability by the founders like the mental
abilities of the children at the Darwin Genetic Research Station. What do
you think? (Note from Phil: I don't know that it's ever really been established although I would tend to agree that it's something innate since the young Jem'Hadar had the capability in "The Abandoned".)
Jacob Boxer: In Distant Origin, when the Voth named Gagin scans Voyager's computer, he
reports that they have a BINARY computer system. But in Future's End, when
Kim uploads Starling's database, he says it will take a few moments to
reconfigure to their binary system, implying that Voyager uses a system other
than binary.
Todd Felton of Victoria, BC: [Concerning Brian O'Marra's comment that the Voth speak English,] I beg to differ--the first sounds we hear from the Voths are clicking
sounds, then they start speaking English. I took it that the clicking
IS their language, and when they changed to English it wasn't actually
the aliens speaking English, it was just that was how WE were hearing it
so that we knew what they were saying.
Did the crew, besides Chakotay, ever hear the two Voths speak? When
Gagen and his assistant were released from their cloak in the mess hall,
they were speaking 'clicking' again, and the assistant also made some
clicking when in sickbay.. I took it that it was the computer on
Gagen's ship which allowed Chakotay and Gagen to speak. I can't recall
if any Alpha Quadrant being besides Chakotay ever conversed with them.
(Janeway did talk to Vir, the assistant, in sickbay but he didn't answer
back in any language we could understand).
Mark Bowman: Was that a password being displayed out in the open when the weapon
systems were manualy activated?
Andre Sobieski: Not-a-nit: When Tuvok gets shot by that "harpoon" Tom tries to shoot.
The phasar doesn't fire. I don't know if anyone else felt this way but I
was yelling "Throw it at that thing!" I mean, it at least might slow the
thing down!
Gareth Wilson: About the computer extrapolation of dinosaur evolution, it's right that
this would be extrodinarly difficult, given that very little is known
about the enviroment the dinosaurs evolved in. However, it's reasonable
that this species was bipedal, because the hadrosaurs they supposedly
evolved from were all bipedal. What interests me is the size issue.
Hadrosaurs were absolutly humongous animals, and if they hadn't shrunk in
the process of evolution, there would have been some real problems with
Central Casting.
Rick Kuzma of Lebanon, NH: I thought this was one of the better Voyager episodes. It was an intriguing
premise and was carried through to a believable resolution. I'll let the
resident paleontologists debate the evolution issue; I thought it was a good,
strong story which Voyager has had a lack of.
I'd like to nitpick one of Steven Perry's remarks if I may. Steven thought
"heresy" was the wrong word to use to condemn Gegen. I think it was
exactly right. The use of religion to bring people into line has been used
over and over in our own history and since a whole civilization was
travelling on Galact...er...the City Ship, I can readily see it being used to
control the population.
My biggest nit problem with this episode was that the Voth scanned 148
lifeforms on Voyager. There must be five birds on the ship because by my
count, starting with Janeway's remark in "The 37's" that there were 152
people aboard and including Wildman's baby, there are 143 left. Or,
perhaps the writers just wanted to see if we were paying attention.
Nathan Hurst, Miami, FL: All in all a decent Voyager episode (compared to some of the earlier stuff we had in the beginning of this season.)
On with the nits:
Did voyager really leave that planet more than a year ago? Wouldn't it
actually be 8 months (September-May?) I dont keep religious track of star
dates, but what is the official word on this? (Note from Phil: Well, we didn't get a stardate on this episode so it's hard to tell until we get a stardate on the next episode but it's probably less than a year. Who's year? You ask? Who knows!)
And...how long did it take for our science-dino pal and his assistant
to track down the Voyager? and if the Voth are so wide-spread, why have they
never been seen before now?
If these guys are scientists, and they see that the Voyager is
technilogical, why do they just zoom in and expect no consequences? Couldn't they take some more precautions that just beaming onto the bridge
and start using devices that obviously emit radiation? (Note from Phil: Apparently arrogance isn't the sole purview of humanity.)
How did they know Chakotay was human? He has different markings than the
others. Maybe I missed it, but were the dino-scientists interested in the
variety of life onboard Voyager?
When Paris is attempting to fire the torpedos, and the Voth somehow lock
him out and stop him from initiaing the firing sequence. When paris asks how
this is being done, the computer says "The method is unknown." uh.....why
cant the computer just find out where the jam is originating (seeing as the
firing sequence is a LOGICAL PROGRAM (consisting of a series of commands))
and say "the primary interface is not responding" or some such thing. they
should have at least TRIED to make technobable (Hey Chief! Get out the
technobabble generator and tell us where the problem is! I dont have my book
on my, cuz I am at work.)
Looking forward to next week. But if it is dumb, I will be upset.
Has anyone else noticed in some of those previews of things to come (COME
WHAT MAY) that Ceska is back, and Tom is wearing Yellow (instead of red?)
John Hardison: Good episode. Man has evolved in only a few million years, and have
been around as Homo Sapiens for less...the dinosaurs were around for
hundreds of millions of years, and have had 65 million years since
leaving earth to evolve. Good premise!
Besides the ridiculous form of government the Saurians had (20 million
years and still an autocracy? it has only taken us 2000 years to
realize some form of democracy is the only way to go) I have no nits.
I will comment on other people's nits that have prevailed so far..
Why travel 70,000 light years to find a region of space? perhaps
they didn't. As explorers, they are exposed to the same problems
Voyager has been. Perhaps their original colony ships got caught is a
worm hole or something. It just isn't fair for people to be making
their long journey a nit....nobody knows how or why they traveled so
far, so don't assume they consciously went that distance.
Universal translator questions: If no crew member was around, why
were the Saurians speaking English and not using subtitles? and
reading Voyager's name? I don't think we have a name or acronym for
it, but this is a Nit We Should Let Go. Frankly, I would rather have
the aliens speaking English then reading subtitles on the screen. If
I'm reading subtitles, I can't watch all the details of every scene
and pick out nits!
Someone had a great nit, about the TNG episode "The Chase" about
the seeded DNA on many planets. But after thinking about it, there is
no telling when that DNA was seeded, the dinosaurs got it first, then
we got it later. Someone mentioned that because of the seeded DNA it
didn't make sense that non-mamals like the Saurians would have
it...but the Cardassians have it and they are..well..I don't know what
they are...but they ain't mammals!
This marks the second time Voyager has an opportunity to get cool
technology and they just haven't. First, Harry Kim's holodeck woman is
controlling a suppression field that is better tech then Voyager's and
Tuvok doesn't ask for it. Now we have the chance to get Transwarp
drive. Not only do we fail to ask, but gosh darn it, Chakotay could
have said to the depressed scientist, "why don't you come with us? we
are on our way to Earth, not only could you continue to work on your
theories, you would be the first Saurian in 65 million years to see
the homeworld" then we would have gotten him, his ship, his transwarp
drive, and the Minister would have gotten rid of a heretic
permanently!
My only nit....why did a maqui insignia have Voyager's name imprinted
on it in the first place?
Michael Ash: A good episode, but I had a problem with the Voth transwarp drive. Once the
two scientist people (can't remember names, sorry) find Voyager, they
comment that it's 90 light years away. Then, almost immediately, they're
there. Really fast. Really, really, really fast. If we're generous and say
it took them 10 seconds to catch up with voyager, that's 9 light-years/sec.
At that speed, they could cross the galaxy in a bit over two hours, but
they seem to have no knowledge of other quadrants. Hmm..... This is also a
bit of GIS, with the ability to get home so fast, but at least the writers
are becoming a little subtle with it.
Chris Booton: At one point
late in the episode paris and tuvok (does Tuvok have a last name) are on
a deck and see that power has gone out and as a result so have turbo
lifts. Paris says that they sould use a jeffries tube. Just close to the
entrance into one they are attacked by an alien who darts Tuvok, paris
attempts to fire at it and cannot. For some reason it does not shoot him
despite the fact that it had plenty of time to do so. Was it out of
darts? Did they not use pasers because the same filed that keeps
federation ones from working also stops theirs?
Lisa Solinas: Kirkanization is dead. When Janeway's phaser dies, she just looks at it and begins
squabbling with the natives. Sisko [my hero] would've used his phaser as a club.
This isn't technically a nit [new glossary term "IJULF: It JUst Looks Funny"] IJULF. When
Chakotay is stuck with the dart, he falls to the side. When we see him, he's on his back [It
just looks funny.
Brian O'Marra, Little Rock, AR: Having perused this episode a second time, I discovered some more plot discrepencies...
First, I like the way Gegan can sketch the biped completely dressed
from just a square foot piece of uniform, and a skeleton, and get it
almost exact!
Also, according to the plot, these Saurians lived and evolved on a
"lost continent", lost milleniums ago. They apparently developed space
traveling technology and left the planet. Other nitpickers observed that
they couldn't have traveled at transwarp that long ago, so how could
they get that far out?...On that basis -Very true! They would have died
out by the time they reached the Delta Quadrant.
The only way you get around this dilemma is if the Saurians had the
technology when they left Earth! What I find a bit troubling is, that
this supposedly advanced race (which is implied throughout the episode,
eg when Gegan makes comments on how primitive the humans' ability to
smell is,etc) travels at transwarp (which the Excelsior did in Star Trek
III), timeshifts out of space (which Picard and crew did in the TNG
episodes "Times Arrow I&II") and has normal cloaking technology.
Also this advanced species can so easily be stopped by a containment
field and be discovered by the Voyager crew firing adjusted phasers!!
Not so advanced now, are we??
Glenn St-Germain: I liked this one. A decent plot, interesting things to ponder... Some points:
Someone other than Harry Kim gets "kidnapped" for a change...
The Voth are insectivorous, apparently -- in one scene, Professor Gegen and
his student are chatting, and there is a curious fixture in the room, a light
around which small insects are buzzing. At one point, one of the saurians
lashes his tongue at the fixture and grabs a snack. Cute. But wouldn't it
take rather a lot of insects to feed such a large creature? Taking one small
bug from the bug lamp as a snack would be akin to eating a single M&M
from the bag. The Voth are man-sized -- they'd need a lot of insects to make a
meal. A rather inefficient food source, I'd say. (And how did they speak so
clearly and eloquently if they have tongues which can extend a metre or more
from their mouths?)
I was waiting for Chakotay to mention Galileo's discovery of the Jovian moons
and how he was charged with heresy by the church... the situation is similar,
and the Galileo story (and his eventual vindication) would have at least
cheered up Professor Gegen.
In the TNG episode "The Chase", it was established that some long-dead race
seeded several worlds with genetic material which eventually gave rise to
humans (on Earth) as well as Vulcans/Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, and so
on. So if human DNA contains 47 (that number again!) sequences which match
Voth DNA, presumably so would Vulcan, Cardassian, Klingon... but then,
what about the rest of the Terran zoological matrix? Clearly, this episode's
premise seems incompatible with that of "The Chase"
Michael Teplitsky: Great episode, hilarious.
Janeway must be an amateur paleontologist: when the computer said that
the next species is a hadrosaurus, she stepped away from the doctor,
anticipatingthe size of the creature.
It was fun to see how the dino scientists come to the conclusion that
humans are matriarchal just from Janeway's behavior. A serious
scientist would not make such a hasty conclusion.
All in all, a great episode.
Jennifer Robb: The "table" within the force field on Gegan's ship looks like a
reuse of one used in the TNG episode where aliens attracted by
Geordi's attempts to extend the sensors, abduct Riker while he
sleeps (sorry, can't remember the name of the epidods.) (Note from Phil: I think you're thinking of "Schisms")
Karen Fischer: No nits this week. This was a really well done episode.
The fact that it began from the Voth perspective was refreshing. I did
notice that a different camera angle was tried. The action of the
Bridge was viewed from above as opposed to eye level, I really liked
that touch.
I must admit I was rooting for Gegen, the Voth scientist. Too bad his
assistant wimped out. I must admit I half expected Gegen to ask
Chakotay if Janeway would allow him to join the crew and go with them
since he was going to be railroaded into prison or a less rewarding job
on his home world.
I also want to praise the makeup people for a wonderful job. The
actress who played the head of the Voth was virtually unrecognizable in
the prosthetics, yet I recall her name from China Beach. Good work!
Matthew Chase Maxwell of San Francisco CA: Like many others, I really enjoyed "Distant Origin." While the story
allowed a few nits, I thought the writing was fairly solid. There is
hope for Voyager yet!
Matt Nelson: Well, I've gotta say first of all, that despite the negativity you're
about to hear, I did really enjoy this episode. I think Voyager is
really starting to hit the ground running.
With regard to the individual who posted about the
creator's using an individual to portray ignorance rather than
demonize religion, I agree... PARTIALLY. I still think that once
again what we have here is Star Trek's extremely negativistic
attitude about religion and those who hold any beliefs in it at all.
Again and again in this episode we see references to ignorance, myth,
and backwards thinking, as well as intolerance and barbarism on the
part of those who are not willing to believe the "truth" about
science. Again and again, science and the truth are used in Gegen's
dialogue almost interchangeably. While I am a firm believer in the
scientific method, I also find it personally insulting that people
who do not accept a more widely accepted scientific theory
are portrayed as backward, blind, and closed-minded. Someday, I'd love
to see an episode where Janeway and crew encounter a race of beings
for whom they can find no origin--and discover it is because they
were literally created from nothingness, leaving them to wonder
whether or not science holds all the keys to their small existence.
Brian O'Marra, Little Rock, AR: This episode contends that the Suarians had Hadrosaurs as descendants. If I am incorrect, and our paleontologist nitpickers may correct me,
Hadrosaurs were herbivores. Yet Gegan in one scene, sticks his toungue
way out to suck up what appears to look like insects around a power
source. They probably were just food or energy particles since they were
the same color as the source they were dancing around. Still, animals
such as anteaters that have a tongue that shoots way out like Gegan use
it to catch insects. Those animals are CARNIVORES.
This implies that the hadrosaurus had a similar type tongue. I don't
think plant eaters would need it. Unless they're trying to catch a
buzzing fern!! Why then did they have that scene if it may be
incorrect?? BILC!!
5/12/97 Update
trevor burgess of windsor, ont: When the doctor and janeway are on
the holodeck, trying to figure out their dilemma, they ask the computer what that dinosaur
would look like if it had evolved over the last 60 million years. the computer projects an
image that is pretty darn close to the alien in their sick bay. here is my question: how
can the computer be so accurate if it has not even one bit of data on the creature's
environment or lifestyle or anything for 60 million years? i have heard of a term called
environmental pressure which describes events that might push a species this way or that on
the evolutionary scale. does the computer have a way of compensating for this GIANT gap in
its extrapolations? maybe i'm just being too picky, but i think that they could have made
the computers estimate a bit less accurate.
Jason Maxwell, Seattle WA: Paris uses his commuicator to communicate with Janeway that he's got control of the weapons. Paris has to know by now that Janeway has been
captured. Isn't really stupid to tell Janeway without finding out if one
of the bad guys is with her first so he doesn't tip his plan?
John Reese, Austin TX: The Saurians in charge here reminded me of earthly fundamentalists
(Christian, Islamic, or whatever). My definition of fundamentalism is
this: When reality conflicts with your belief system, throw out reality.
The Voths certainly had this attitude. My only problem is that they never
explained why their beliefs were so important to them. For most
fundamentalists in this country, it's the fear of Hell that keeps them from
examining their beliefs too closely. (This is not a slam against religion.
I am a Christian myself, just more open-minded than some. I think that if
compelling new evidence presents itself, then my belief system must be
modified to accomodate the new evidence.) (Note from Phil: Well, as with all generalizations, I'd be a bit more introspective if I were you. My questions would be: Just how large is your sampling of "Fundamentalists"? Two, ten, one hundred, one? And, if your sampling is small, where did you develop your information set on which you base your conclusion? From television? Are you willing to ascribe the quality of "truth" to what you see on television? Even with television news, are you willing to believe what they tell you? Or, could it be that those in television might have a certain level of skew on their stories. We as human invariably alter information when we processes it--unless we're talking about something concrete like fundamental mathematics. From the polls that I have seen, the majority of those involved in the news and entertainment business have little time for traditional religion in their lives. Are you willing to believe that they are absolutely objective in the way they portray traditional religion? I think we need to maintain a certain vigilance in spouting conclusions about groups of people that we have little direct involvement with--especially when the conclusions are based on information that has been fed to us from sources that, by nature, will alter the information in some fashion. I know it feels powerful to make grand conclusions about the world but I've always tried to maintain a policy of carefully examining the sources that I use to draw that information. If they are beyond my personal experience, I *assume* that they may contain some skew. And, even then, I recognize that my experience is limited. For instance, I grew up in the Philippines. I *know* a little something about Filipino culture and yet even I would be hestitant to say, "All Filipinos are . . ." Rather, I would say, "In general, it has been my experience that Filipinos . . ." Now . . . with regards to Fundamentalists, I happen to know *hundreds* of thme because I are one! And I love telling people that because it usually makes their eyes twitch as they try to reconcile what they "know" about fundamentalist with what they know about me! ;-)
How will they know, in the 24th century, the structure of saurian DNA?
Contrary to what we saw in Jurassic Park, no one has been able to obtain a
complete strand of dinosaur DNA from fossilized amber. Maybe someone
slingshotted around the sun and got a blood sample. (-:
Also, about the Voth translator that allowed him to read the inscription on
the uniform: It wasn't really a translator, it was a phonator--It told
Gegen how to pronounce the words. This is interesting, because on this
planet alone there are at least three methods of writing: phonetic (such
as English), symbolic (such as Chinese), and somewhere in between (each
symbol stands for a syllable). How did the translator know which one it
was? And how did Gegen know that the "USS" part was supposed to be spelled
out, and not pronounced as "uss"?
Brian O'Marra, Little Rock, AR: In reference to Todd Felton seeming correction to my nit that the Voth's speak English, first, thanks Todd for reading my nit and others. I enjoy reading your
nits and my other fellow nitpickers.
I do agree that there were clicking noises at the beginning of the
episode. I do agree that that was the Voth language. My contention
should be that there should have been subtitles under the clicking
noises. I believe that I mentioned that subtitles surely would get
boring week after week. However it should have been used in this case.
The universal translator was not around for the first quarter of the
show.
It was this issue, the liberal use of the universal translator, that I
was raising as a nit.
Star Trek VI had Chang speaking Klingon at Kirk's and Mccoy's trial
scene. Doctor McCoy and Kirk were listening to translators held up to
their ears hearing it in English. The next scene has Chang speaking from
McCoy and Kirk's prespective but Chang's mouth is speaking English not
Klingon.
Also, to prove my contention. On board Voyager the universal translator
didn't work when the Voth was in sickbay. We heard clicking noises. Yet,
after Chakotay is beamed aboard the Voth ship they both spoke English.
I was merely commenting on the liberal use and disuse of the universal
translator in this episode and the series. Maybe I was unclear in my
last week's nit. I hope I was able to clarify it better.
Bob Canada: Huh! Another pretty good episode. In fact, this was actually a good
episode. And best of all, no uncalled-for luao program.
Of course, there are always a few nits...
I was ok with the depiction of the Voth society and the dinosaur
professor, until his daughter showed up--then I started wondering if her
name was Charlene. At least they didn't bring out the baby. "Not the
Momma!"
Chalotay's a scientist? When did that happen? Have they ever mentioned
this fact of his existance before? I thought science was Janeway's
forte.
Voyager has 148 crewmembers, as of this episode. Everyone write this
down.
In addition to the obvious "47 genetic markers" line, the serial # on
Hogan's rank pin started with a 4, and ended with a 5 and a 2.
When the cloaked aliens were watching Tom & B'Ellanna, I wondered if Tom
would walk thru one of them (hey, they were phased, right?). Luckily for
the special effects budget, Tom took a detour at the last second.
Has Voyager's holodeck always looked like this (like its unfinished,
with scaffolding all over the walls)? I much prefer the old NextGen
yellow grid style.
If an alien menace is going to take over the ship, then this is how it
should be done--thru superior technology that can't be counteracted. No
more strolling up to the bridge and pushing everyone out of their seats.
Why bother trying to get the ship back to the Alpha Quadrant? They've
already encountered a Romulan, a couple of Ferengi, Amelia Erhardt and a
whole planet of human colonists, Chakotay's alien tribesmen, and now our
dinosaurian ancestors. Seems like there's an awful lot of Alpha Quadrant
refugees and artifacts showing up in the Delta Quadrant...Why not just
settle down here?
Marian Perera: Gagen makes some *lucky* guesses!
1) he says that since the fossil had multiple
digits and opposable thumbs, it was techonologically
advanced. Uh...how about apes, Gagen? Or, for that matter,
people in the Stone/Bronze/Iron age?
2) he correctly guesses Hogan's sex as male and
addresses him as such. Either this is sexism or Gagen
learned to tell the sex of a very different species without
having examined such a skeleton before.
3) he figures out that the "USS Voyager" on Hogan's
uniform is the name of the ship. Why couldn't it have been
Hogan's name...or Hogan's girlfriend's name...or the name
of the guy who made the uniform ("USS Garak" :-D )?
4) Even the Voth computer gets in on the game -
although I couldn't see any carpals, metacarpals or
phalanges on the table, it showed a representation of a
humanoid complete with HANDS and FINGERS!
What can I say? The Voth are JUST THAT GOOD.
That beast in the cave, it's a big eater! Hogan's
bones are as clean as if they've been boiled. Not a scrap
of decaying flesh or skin on them. Then again....
Best scene : Londo...er, Gagen beams out with
Chakotay and Vir looks up from the floor to see Tuvok,
holding a phaser, two security officers, holding
phasers...and Neelix, wearing that silly apron.
James Rioux: I was a huge dinosaur afficionado as a kid and, to me, that dinosaur
they showed in the holodeck looks more like Parasaurolophus than
Hadrosaurus. Paras have long crests, Hadros have shorter ones. The
crest of the holo-dinosaur looks fairly long to me. True,
Parasaurolophus is related to Hadrosaurus, but they're not of the
same genus, and they specifically said "genus Hadrosaurus".
Lisa Solinas: I was baffled as to how, usinga fragment of Hogan's sleeve, Gagin was able to tell what the uniform looked like. I mean, come on! [having that bald alien at the space station tell him
what the uniforms were like would have made sense]
By the way, that nit about "how can Gagin read the word `Voyager' if it's in English"‹IT'S
NOT A NIT! At one point, Gagin refers to the "translator" and if you looked to the side of
the screen, you can see some bird-foot Voth script flickering. (Note from Phil: Yes, but, isn't it astounding that the translator can work from such a small sample of letters, i.e. symbols, and accurately map that to something in Gagin's vocabulary that corresponds to "voyager?")
Michael Martin: In "Distant Origin" these seems to be a major oversight. The Voth
discover the remains of a Voyager Crew member (presumably Lt. Hogan) on
the planet from the "Basics" two-parter. (On one note, it is hard to
believe so many remains are left given the size of the creature and the
volacnic activity of this planet, but this aside...) The Voth discover
a damaged communicator among the remains from which they discover the
name of the "Voyager." Do I recall correctly that, in "Basics," the
Kazon removed all technology from the stranded crew members? I don't
remember seeing Hogan or anyone else with a communicator after that.
Lisa Solinas: The, uh, "doctrine" does seem more political than religious. Although I don't see any
purpose for the spikes on the Dragon Lady's chair except BILC.
After Chakotay wakes up on Gagin's ship, he hits his badge. It doesn't make a sound, even
though the beat-up one near the beginning is out of range and it STILL chirps.
To pursue this subject, Chakotay's hand makes a very loud THUNK when it hits his chest.
This transwarp thing bothers me. Janeway never asks for it. Also, isn't it supposed to be
FASTER than regular warp? Then WHY were Gagin and Vere crawling around the Nekrit expanse.
Also, Chakotay says that horrible things were predicted if anyone ever went to transwarp.
Uh, Chakotay? If I'm not mistaken, bad things DO happen!
Matt Nelson: This is in response to Brian O' Marra's question about the
insect-munching hadrosaurs. First off, while a hadrosaur may indeed
have been a plant-eating animal, there are a LOT of plant-munching
animals out there that also eat insects. Secondly, in response to
the tongue thing; some dinosaurs were theorized to have these things,
and some animals, such as giraffes, have long, prehensile tongues
which they use to pull down branches that are just out of their
reach.
If you would like to add some comments,
drop
me a note at chief@nitcentral.com with the Subject line "Distant Origin". Please include your real name, city and state (or province
and county as the case may be) in the body of the e-mail so I can give you
credit if you are the first person to bring up a particular nit. (Remember
the legalese: Everything you submit becomes mine and you grant me the right
to use yourname in any future publication by me. I will do my best to give
you credit if you are the first person to submit a particular nit but I make
no guarantees. And finally, due to the volume of mail received at Nitpicker
Central, your submission may or may not be acknowledged but that entry will make you a part of the Nitpickers Guide is you aren't one already!)
Copyright 1997 by Phil Farrand. All Rights Reserved.