"Hunters"
Air Date: February 11, 1998
Star Date: 51501.4
PLEASE NOTE: This file is frozen. I think we've done all we're going to do on it!
Receiving a garbled message from Starfleet via the sensor array discovered at the beginning of "Message In A Bottle," Janeway and company discover most of the message is lodged in the nearest sensor relay and set course. On the way, the crew discovers that the realy is 100,000 years old and powered by a tiny quantum singularity--a very small black hole. As the pieces of the message are retrieve, Janeway and Seven discover that it contains letters from home as well as a hidden encrypted message. Unfortunately, the longer the remainder of the message stays in the sensor relay the more it degrades. When Janeway refuses to bring the ship and closer to the relay in hopes of stabilizing the storage of the relay, Seven suggests that she attempt the repair in a shuttle. Tuvok accompanies her and the pair are soon captured by a Hirogen vessel. The Hirogen claim ownership of the array. They are a fierce clan of hunters who collected "relics" to prove their worth like the intenstines of their victims. Soon three other Hirogen vessel approach as Janeway attempts to win Tuvok and Seven's release. A battle ensues. The relay's containment field is breeched, exposing the black hole and destroying the Hirogen vessels. Voyager barely escapes and the entire sensor array is damaged in the process--once again isolating the crew from any possible communication with the Alpha Quadrant (though there is still the undeciphered secret message.) Obviously, the Hirogen are not pleased.
Brash Reflections
I enjoyed this episode! Good new enemy and next week's episode looks like fun as well! Thank heaven for sweeps month. ;-)
Chakotay seems to be very fascinated by the fact that the relay uses a quantum singularity for a power source. He probably just forgot the Romulans power their ships in a similar fashion!
Nice to see that Janeway to keep her eye out for things for Neelix to do. I guess there would be no point in simply emailing the messages to the crew when there's a Talaxian around who could hand carry little PADDs to everyone! ;-)
Not a nit, just a thought (NANJAT). Man . . . I used to think my 14.4K modem was slow until I saw B'Elanna trying to download Paris's message. Thirty seconds would go by and she would get just a "little bit more!" Either that was one huge letter or poor old Voyager could only establish a 10 baud comlink to the relay station! (I still remember the old 300 baud days!)
Until next time!
Reflections from the Guild
(Note from Phil: I haven't verified these reflections but they sounded good to me!)
Alex Otis: One quick nit. At the end, Neelix said that the party was about to start and there were only two people missing. Who's flying the ship, then? I'm still glad the repeats are over.
Rick Bell - Towson, Maryland: Are our heroes so naive that they think that, after being threatened by a belligerent being for using its communication relays, that this guy is gonna leave them alone now that Seven has zapped him? Voyager is using the relay with wild abandon without any concern for whether or not the owners will yell at them again.
Of course, then we wouldn't have the new bad guys to make the show interesting (though this whole letters from home thing is good enough to carry an episode - in fact, it's 40 minutes into the episode and that's all they've shown us!)
On that note, these bad guys have been in the "Next Episode" segments for the past two new episodes and have yet to do a whole lot to our intrepid heroes, or have much air-time at all. Well, we can always watch the "Predator" movies to see them in action :)
Corey Hines, Hamilton, ON: I watched only the last half of this episode and didn't see much but I know I am not the only one that these new aliens are a rip-off of the Predator.
I'm wondering what Chekotay's reaction will be if Starfleet told them that the Maquis were completely wiped out by the Jem'Hadar.
Gina Torgersen of LaCrosse, Florida: This relay station is powered by a small singularity. Didn't the Romulans use artificial singularities in "Timescape?" They didn't produce these gravi-wave things. If you destroy a Romulan Warbird it would not release a black hole.
When Tuvok asked Seven a question at the end of their conversation about what Captain Janeway thought of her, just before the hunter aliens captured them, he said something like, "Can I ask you a question?" and I really expected him to say something to the effect of "If we just stabilized the containment field, and our mission is accomplished and we don't seem to be having any problems, why does the background music sound like we are in really big trouble?"
Speaking of Tuvok, when he and Seven are on the hunter ship, he is talking about cutting themselves loose with the weapons on the walls. A hunter alien walks up really loudly just as he finishes saying this. Tuvok should have heard him coming. Why would he say that if he knew someone probably hostile was coming up behind them? Either this guy can be really quiet when he wants to or there is a thick carpet nearby that muffled his footsteps.
[From Someone Identified Only As Zarnac]: Latest episode- again I forget the name, but I'm referring to the one with the Hirojin, and the crew getting letters from home. One major nit that stood out was this: The Hirojin space station was powered by a quantum singularity. The whole crew acts as if this is new and wonderful, and are almost killed by it. Um...excuse me, but haven't the Romulans been using synthetic quantum singularities to power their warbirds, and this hasn't mattered much?
Joseph P. Pintar: Just saw the new Voyager episode. It was OK but nothing special.
As I recall from the last new episode, those aliens didn't Voyager to use their communication system, yet in this episode they're still using it. Isn't that a bit rude?
Is it really a good idea for Seven and Tuvok to leave the ship just so the crew can get letters from home? I know its nice and everything, but they survived four years without contact. Is this worth a potentially hazardous mission? I know some people would say yes but I don't think so.
I haven't watched DS9 in a while, when was the Maquis wiped out? (Note from Phil: Good question! Were we ever told this specifically? Seems like I remember something about this but I've had other things on my mind!)
Did the outfit and voice of those aliens remind anyone of Shredder from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Movies?
Rick Bell - Towson, Maryland: When the black hole containment system went down, the result would have been instant. I was willing to have an open mind that there are technologies that our 20th century Earth science can not conceive of yet. So I bought the containment system idea, though such a thing would have to be something very much beyond our comprehension. Once it was gone, however, all bets were off. Black holes are unbelievably powerful, even at 1 cm diameter. All the ships in the area would have been destroyed instantly. But that would have been a bummer of an ending, and Harry Kim would have never gotten the letter from his folks that he had been stressing about all episode.
Do they still say "stem to stern" in the 24th century? Apparently Chakotay knows something about the ship that we don't.
Shane Tourtellotte: A pair of reverse 47s tonight. First, a heading of 274 mark 13 to the station holding the Starfleet message. Second, the member of Specise 5174 slain the same way as the body aboard the derelict ship.
The garbled message we hear from the fade-in at the beginning sounded considerably longer than Kim's filtered version. What, did he leave out the commercials? ;-)
Dialgoue states they're 60,000 light-years from home now, which must contradict *some* other dialogue from this season. Mustn't it?
Kim detects one deceased male humanoid aboard the drifting ship. We've gone through this before, but how can ship's sensors tell if a person on a distant ship is male -- especially when he's dead?
There's much talk of a quantum singularity, about one centimeter in diameter, in this episode. I'm not completely sure of this(better call Mitzi Adams!), but a quantum singularity is basically a black hole without an event horizon, the zone from which nothing can escape. If this is so, how can the singularity, by definition a point with no width, have a centimeter diameter? (Note from Phil: Maybe they would be better to say it has an "event horizon" of one centimeter?!)
Someone, I think Janeway, speaks of all they've been through "in the last four years." It's about 3200 stardates since "Caretaker", so this is really closer to three years. Oddly, near the end Janeway mentions how coffee has helped her keep the ship in one piece for three years. Finally looked at the calendar? ... or was the first year just too easy for her?
T'Pel seems a little indiscreet in casually writing about their son's pon farr in a letter. Tuvok seems *very* cool as Neelix reads about this intensely private Vulcan matter, not even batting an eye. Or an eyebrow. ;-)
There must be a more efficient way of distributing mail than having Neelix carry around PADDs in a bucket. How about downloads to the computers in each crewmember's quarters?
I wish Tuvok wouldn't turn toward 7o9, and thus away from the shuttle's controls, while speaking to her during a tricky away mission. (I cringe at this on other TV shows too, while driving.)
We come out of a commercial to see a Hirogen ship looming right behind the shuttle, pummeling it. Cut to inside the shuttle, where Tuvok says the ship is 50,000 kilometers away. That must be one _*BIG*_ ship!
I find the claim that the relay station is producing as much power in a minute as a star does in a year incredible. Stars are *really* big, and intensely powerful. Besides, what star is the benchmark? They vary greatly in size and luminosity, by a million times or more between the brightest and dimmest stars.
As 7o9 awakes aboard the Hirogen ship, she notes of her bindings "This is most uncomfortable." I couldn't help saying back to her "Comfort is irrelevant." :-) Guess she's becoming more human all the time.
How does Kim know from his scans that the approaching ship is Hirogen? He's never seen/scanned one before.
Isn't it convenient that Kim doesn't get a letter from his girlfriend, Libby? Guess the creators would like us to forget he had a main squeeze on Earth, so we could concentrate on the "Will they or won't they?" tension with 7o9.
Neelix calls the ready room, saying Janeway and Chakotay are the only two people missing from his party. Uh, does this mean *everybody* on board is there? Who's running the ship? And won't the mess hall be crowded? (Or are they using the Club Med holodeck program? And would a holodeck be big enough for over 140 people, either?)
Johnson Lai: Chakotay referred to the Dominion as "a species from the Gamma Quadrant that gave [the Cardassians] ships and weapons". When Voyager disappeared, knowledge of the Dominion should already be well spread (it's been months since DS9's "The Jem'Hadar").
David T Shaw: Saw "Hunters". Was depressed. Picked nits.
At the beginning, the captain with the surgeons mask (can't recall the alien's name) said "Locate the ship receiving it" (referring to the message. I am sorry, but that is impossible- any ship could be receiving it (after all, his ship is receiving it). I may be mistaken, but I was always under the impression that sub-space transmissions were a broadcast, like radio. One of the neat things about broadcasts is that you don't know what stations are receiving it- you can only find the transmitter. Now, sub-space receivers may give some sort of signature upon receiving (which would explain all those "The ship is receiving, it is just not answering" comments that appear in all versions of Star Trek- however this would severely limit sub-spaces use in war- one of the beauties of radio silence of ships now is that headquarters can still issue orders {of course, they are never sure if they had been received....}) so you could find a ship receiving messages, but you wouldn't be able to tell if the message was addressed to the ship. So I think the command is silly.
All these speculations about what's in the message- I found Harry's the most unlikely, and found Tuvoc's concurrence baffling- if Star Fleet has a way to get home, why don't they use it to send a ship, or at least a probe, instead of using an already demonstrated unreliable repeater grid? Of course, it may be a technology that requires a lot of prep, but still, it is a most logical objection to the hope, and I can't believe that Tuvok didn't raise it.
So, 7 has to spend 3 out of every twenty-four hours in a regeneration cubby-hole? First time I heard of it. Does this take the place of sleep? Eating? Or just supplement them in some way?
This battle between the shuttle and the aliens had me scratching my head. Voyager detected the relay station. It advanced as far as was safe. It then sends out a shuttle. I would assume that the shuttle just went in a straight line course to the station- which means it was still in view of Voyager's sensors. A ship appears, a fire fight occurs, and Voyager doesn't know about it? Was Harry so worried about not hearing from his folks that he wasn't paying attention to his readouts? I'm sorry, but it doesn't make any sense.
I didn't see a KMYF moment, but I thought that Janeway gave a "I need a hug" look to Chakotay after telling him about being "Dear Jane'd". I fail to understand how you can increase the gravitational field of the station: mass is mass (I remembered the "Q Who?" episode, and Q said "Change the gravitational constant..." I was waiting for them to suggest that.) I suppose that the containment field could use a sub-space component to affect that (Same TNG episode) but I didn't hear anything over about it. Speaking of the gravitational field- I find it difficult to believe that the stations with those lovely spires sticking out would be able to last long in the incredibly high gravitational gradient that would be along those spires (The quantum black whole was four centimetres in diameter, that means that every four centimetres is subject to the inverse square law {I think- my physics is very rusty- but I do know that it would be an incredibly gradient along those spires})
And the length of time to get the message- they were able to send the HoloDoc in less than 15 seconds (had to be able, else The Prometheus would have gone out of range..) and yet it takes a matter of hours for a text message to be sent? And why did the message start off in voice, and then ended up in text? I know, because a text message being cut off is dramatic... And lastly, the entire relay grid is knock out. Okay, I can accept that. However, why doesn't Janeway expect it to be repaired? The system is incredibly old, uses huge power systems and is still active. That implies that it is still being maintained. Couple that with the big-uglies who get upset about Star Fleet using "their" relay system, doesn't that imply that the aliens might repair it? I was under the impression that the other stations just went off-line, not that they self-destructed.
I kind of like the aliens motivation- finding prey and engaging in the hunt. I don't understand Tuvok saying that the aliens lack any sort of moral centre however- the underling suggested to the alien captain that he was ignoring his duty (exact words were closer to that his judgement might be impaired) in search of new relics. That comment makes no sense unless there is some sort of code to be followed... However, as much as I like skulls and bones, there has to be some other considerations than just going out hunting, and I hope we see some of them.
Didn't see a preview, but I did notice that they still haven't told us what this mysterious encrypted message is, I'd laugh if it was something like general orders for dealing with the Cardassian War....
Oh yeah- lost another shuttle (why even keep count anymore?) and another one word title that refuses to use a definite article....
[From Someone Identified Only As Anomaly]: How did the "Alpha Hirogen" recover so fast from Tuvok slitting his neck?
How did Voyager escape from the black hole (that didn't look like a black hole)
Why don't the crew know about the Dominion?
I won't ask how anyone could build anything around a black hole ;-)
2/16/98 Update (Note from Phil: A quick reminder. It is not my intention to upload every message that I receive on an episode. I will always upload comments--i.e. "I enjoyed the episode." "I felt like the episode lacked . . ."--but if a nit has already been picked, it's picked . . . unless I decide to list it twice because it's repicked in a funny way or I just wasn't certain it had already been picked and I was bombing through my mail and I let it pass just in case!)
Dustin Westfall of Fullerton, CA: Why does Harry give the long explanation about the relay station at the
opening of the teaser? Wouldn't it be simpler to say "the relay network
to the Alpha Quadrant", or "the Hirogen relay network?" (I know they
wanted to fill in those who missed "Message in a Bottle", but this was
too much.)
Why couldn't they filter out the interference while receiving like they
normally do?
Is the paint the Hirogen uses war paint? I hope it gets explained, I
hate loose ends.
How can Harry really believe they have found a whole new way to travel
in less than 4 years? If they could do stuff that fast, they'd never
have ships leave. As soon as they finished upgrading, they'd have
something new to add on.
It was mentioned by Shane Tourtellotte that they shouldn't be able to
tell that there is one male humanoid on a ship if that being is dead.
I'll go a step further. How can they detect a male humanoid when he's
not only dead, but gutted as well!
Should Neelix be delivering these PADDs during people's work shifts?
It's a very needless distraction.
Just a question. Is there any reason they need to be in the shuttle?
Couldn't they program one to do what needs to be done, and thn return,
thereby endangering no one. Or better yet, rather than risking one their
shuttles(as many as they seem to have), why not send a probe, properly
modified to do it?
Why, oh why, did they stop working to talk, and about unimportant things
too? (Note from Phil: This *is* pretty normal for business! What little I've worked in Corporate America has always amazed me with the amouth of time people spending chit-chatting.)
Was anyone else reminded of the Caretaker's Array when they saw the
relay station? A bit redressed, I admit, but there it is.
Why, when they lost nav sensor, et. al., couldn't they simply do a 180
degree turn, and return to Voyager? Or backtrack? Was the helm and nav
logs damaged as well?
Why'd Torres call Tom down when she hadn't even finished downloading it
yet? (Anti-nit: You said you wondered how fast the connection btw.
Voyager and the relay station was, since it was downloading Tom's
message so slowly. My response to that is that Voyager was downloading
hundreds of files, and as a net surfer myself, I know that when you have
multiple files downloading at the same time, it can take forever, even
for a simple text file.)
Did I miss something? Wasn't the communications system damaged on the
shuttle? Didn't Tuvok have to launch an distress beacon(which could have
come in really handy for Tom and B'elanna in "Day of Honor," by the
way)? So why did Harry say he was picking up a distress beacon from the
shuttle?
I hope I'm not the only one who is glad to know the Hirogen clean the
bones of their "prey."
Production glitch: When the Hirogen leader approaches his sub. after
he's told that other ships are coming, there is audio of him talking,
but his jaw isn't moving, while it is in every other shot.(Maybe
ventriloquism is a good atribute to have in a hunt, but I doubt it ;-)
Having never seen a black hole(I keep meaning to, but class and all...
;-), I don't think we'd really get the "swirly, dust cloud" around one.
I know, I know, it just looked cool. (Note from Phil: Actually . . . this maybe pretty close. From the little reading that I've done, I believe black holes are thought to have an accretion disk made of up matter that it swirling inward toward the event horizon of the black hole.)
Wasn't the whole last seen such an extremely obvious setup for a
Janeway/Chakotay romance?
Finally, why did Neelix page the Ready Room, instead of the Capt. and
Comm.? How did he know they'd be there?
Don Ferguson of Queens, NY: Ah at long last we get some new episodes to nit-pick, Alas I was so happy to see some fresh voyager that I couldn’t concentrate on
nit-picking, I only found a few nits.
OK where to start? First off...why is it so hard for starfleet to sent a msg
through? The Doctor must have explained why he was sent through
and not a regular msg..in this case all Starfleet would have to do is
encode the msg in a holographic interface and it should have gone
through...seeing as how the Voyager laws of Physics state:
The more complicated and complex the message, the easier it is to
transmit through a vast network of really old relays across the galaxy.
why did it take so long to get to the array? didn’t they say at first that
they were 3.something light years away? they why does it take 2 days
at high warp to get there? (correct me if I'm wrong, I,m pulling this
from memory.) (Note from Phil: According to a little chart I have, it takes one day to travel five light years at warp nine. So, maybe Janeway wasn't in that big of a hurry?! Or, Voyager can't hit warp 9 any more?!)
While on the away mission, Tuvok and 7of9 are attacked by a hirogen
ship and Voyager seems oblivious to this, why cant their sensors keep
track of the shuttle and that really big ship? how far away from they
array are they? speaking of that... why did they have to send a shuttle
in to the array..because the "eddies" hit big ships to hard right? they
why isn’t the hirogen ship effected? it looks just as large as voyager.
Why does Tuvok often refer to 7of9 as "seven"? this is her nickname
that the captain gave her because she wanted to do everything she
could to destroy 7of9's identity and "assimilate" her into the
Federation... Tuvok does not refer to any other member of the crew by
their nick name or even first name, he only uses a person's rank and
last name, he even refers to nelix as "Mr.Nelix" I believe, I could be
wrong, I wasn’t looking for this before.Anyway.. Tuvok should always
call 7of9 by her full designation, not only is it correct but she seems to
prefer things to be percise..and she considers her nickname
"inpercise..but acceptable"
in the end, voyager detect the hirogen ship approaching and identifies it
as a Hirogen Vessel....how? they have ever seen a hirogen vessel before,
they have only seen a single hirogen's image on the veiwscreen once so
how can they know that this ship approaching they is a hirogen ship
and that it has their crew members abord,given the fact that its armor
reflects targeting sensors. if it reflects sensors from targeting the hull,
how can the sensors penetrate the interior and locate 7 and tuvok?
Speaking of Voyager's use of the array...this is yet another example of
how Janway throws out the prime directive of respect for another race's
wishes when she feels like it. Last episode she finds out that this array
(which is 100,000 years old and seems to have been build by an
extremely advanced and powerful race) is owned by the hirogen and
they are not happy about it, in fact they tell her to get lost. what does
she do? she lets 7 stun one of them and continue to use the array..in
fact she actually smiles when she finds out that 7 shocked the
hirogen.Granted she was tring to retrieve the doctor at the time but
now he is safe and sound..what does she do? she goes back to the array
to collect family letters, Chuckles even reminds her that the Hirogens
wont like it, what does she say? basicly..'screw em'. Once again
Janway succeeds in angering another race of hostel aliens who will no
doubt haunt them for may episodes to come.
Torress tells tom she is in the process of downloading his letter and
even stars reading out parts yet quite some time later after they are
attacked, she tells Tom that she didn’t get to download it, how long
does it take to download one letter? they even had the containment
field restored at this point and Torres said the letters were coming
much faster, even if she couldn’t finish retrieving the letter, why not
just give Tom the parts she got? OK, lets say she couldn’t finish
getting the letter cause it was coming really slow.. how does she
manage to get all these other letters in the meantime? including
Harry's? we know she didn’t have it before because she would tell
Harry if his letter came in. (Note from Phil: Evidently, they were doing some kind of multiple download!)
In that final scene with Janway and Chuckles, I could almost hear the
J/C fans swooning. Why didn’t the two of them just get it over with and
flirt outright with one another?
Josh Truax of Platteville, WI: Real bright move on the part of UPN to start showing new Voyager episodes during the Winter Olympics... NOT!!! Then again, this isn't
the first bonehead move that network has made lately. (No wonder it's
losing affiliates left and right!) Anyway, "Hunters" was one of those
episodes that wasn't particularly great in and of itself, but provided a
good deal of series and even cross-series continuity, not to mention
introduced the crew's latest nemesis. In short, it fits very nicely
into the grand scheme of things...but of course, it had its share of nits. (Note from Phil: In rare defense of UPN, this is sweeps month so they didn't really have much of a choice!)
First of all, that title is a bit misleading to say the least. It
implies that the Hirogen are the primary focus of the story, when in
fact our heroes don't even make contact with them until the fourth act.
Most of the episode is about the crew getting their letters from back
home... which brings me to my next item.
All this time I thought the whole Janeway/Chakotay thing was a dead
issue. They had gone over half a season without anything even
approaching flirting with one another. So, naturally, I thought the
creators had finally made up their minds to drop the whole crazy idea of
a romance between the two. Then came the letter from Mark Johnson in
this episode.
At first, I liked the way the creators were handling it. Janeway was
expecting this sort of news all along, yet when it finally happened she
was still unprepared for it. She relates the news to Chakotay, and at
first he seems sympathetic but nothing more. Yet at show's end, after
escaping from the Hirogen, they're back in the ready room discussing
Janeway's "'Dear John' letter," and guess what: It finally dawns on good
ol' Chuckles that his primary would-be competition is out of the way,
and all of a sudden it's like "Resolutions" just happened last week!
Granted, their conversation toward the end the final scene could hardly
be called flirting -- it certainly wasn't as blatant as we've seen
between them in the past -- but it's clear from their conversation that
they're drifting back into that "more-than-friends/less-than-lovers"
mode I've been railing against for so long! AAAARRRGGH!!!
I've said this before, and I'll say it again now: The creators should
either make Janeway and Chakotay a full-fledged "couple," or just make
them "pals" like Sisko and Kira on DS9... just stop this endless
waffling! It's driving me mad (and I'm sure I'm not the only one)... (Note from Phil: Sometimes . . . tension works! Moonlighting, Lois and Clark, X-Files)
And now, back to your regularly scheduled nitpicking:
In an example of the aforementioned cross-series continuity fostered in
this episode, Chakotay breaks the news to Torres about the demise of the
Maquis at the hands of the Dominion -- but he doesn't mention the
Dominion by name. He refers to them only as "a race from the Gamma
Quadrant." *A* race. Singular. There are in fact three races that make
up the Dominion's power structure -- the Founders, the Vorta and the
Jem'Hadar -- all of whom we have seen on DS9 as part of the Dominion's
Alpha Quadrant war effort...
Finally, in Janeway's last log entry, she still refers to the Hirogen
vessel as "the alien vessel," as if its identity were still unknown.
Next week: More of the Hirogen -- and even our old friends, the 8472.
Until then...
Matt Nelson: Hey there y'all! Well, I watched Voyager last night, and gotta say,
I did like it! The only problem is that in our area, Babylon 5 is on
right before Voyager, which means that MAN do the writing problems
show up fast....
I'm not even gonna get started on the "Neelix as mailman" thing...
BIG nit: Watch the stars in the background when Tuvok and Seven are
flying toward the relay station. They don't change position! Those
wacky creators...
I, too, wondered why Tom's message didn't come through... It sounded
like B'Elanna already had most of it.
Drat the creators!! They killed off Janeway's love interest just so
they could hook her up with the beefy, (yet strangely magnetic)
Commander Chuckles. I hate that.
Uhm, I hate to be rude, but somebody on the producing staff is into
some warped stuff. That whole scene with Seven rolling around in her
lil' leather restraints was WAY too S&M for me. (Note from Phil: And this is the last comment I will include on this topic! It is a valid obversation but . . .)
Next week: Species 8472! Woo-hoo! Right ON!
George Padovan of Bridgewater, NJ: Saw "Hunters". Thought it was okay. Not great, but okay.
The new villians would make a great challenge for Voyager. Just hope
they don't become trophies liked in "Predator" (grin)
Nit time!:
This is strange. In "Message in a Bottle", the Captain learned of the
Hirogens and Seven zapped the Hirogen to get the Doc back. Oviously,
Voyager would *know* that the Doc was sent to the nearest relay station,
which was the one shown in "Hunters". In "Hunters", the Captain and the
others acted like they didn't know the Hirogens are the aliens they'll
likely meet if they approach the relay station! They acted liked they
never met the Hirogens at all in this episode! After zapping the Hirogen
in "Message", the Captain should had been more wary when Voyager
approached the station.
Why does Tuvok and Janeway at the end of the episode keep saying "the
aliens" when by then they know to call them 'Hirogens'? Tuvok should had
said, "The Hirogens have no moral sense" instead of "These aliens have
no morale sense." Seems Janeway and Company have *very* short memories.
B'Elanna stated to Tom that she didn't have time to download his
father's letter before the station was destroyed. What?! She *started*
downloading the message long before the station was destroyed, and after
so much time she lost it? By the time the station was destroyed, she
should had already downloaded the message or at least retrieved enough
of it to give something to Tom. Even a partial letter is better than
nothing at all. (Unless she decided *not* to give the letter to Tom
knowing how much he *doesn't* want to read it)
Next week: Species 8472 vs. The Hirogens! And Voyager is the 'Boxing
Ring'! Go figure. (grin)
Travis McCord: First, a note of praise: there was some good face-acting in this one!
Especially from Janeway when she first read her letter.
OK, now on to some nits: did anybody else think it would have made more sense
for StarFleet to send a hologram back, if the problems present in the last
episode
were still there? (Then again, that didn't really make much sense last time,
did it?
I do wonder if the writers realize the plot possibilities they closed off by
gunning
the unreliable connection to the alpha quadrant... ranging from simple stuff
like
"Captain, there's a message from home in that station!" "The one on the other
side of the Hirogen fleet?" all the way up to using it to introduce a new
(holographic)
character next season.)
Also... how is it that the station they're at contains the only copy of the
messages
from home (As they imply at the episode's end)? It is, after all, part of a
relay. Didn't the stations it passed through on the way here keep a
copy?
Now to a slightly grosser topic... the 'body' they found has had it's innards
entirely
removed, organs, muscles, tendons, and bone. How does it even qualify as a
'body'
anymore? In fact, what they show on the doc's table looks rather like a
spacesuit!
It would have made more sense as 'Captain, there's a blob on board.' (I won't
even
touch 'male'). Come to think of it, they ought to study what they got fairly
well...
it's almost guaranteed that some Next-Gen-Redshirt from Voyager is going to
get
the same treatment, to drive home to the crew (and us in the audience) how
incredibly
dangerous this new enemy is!
(Prediction: unless my crystal ball is fogging again, it looks like that'll be
an integral
part of the season-closing cliffhanger... 'Did <insert regular cast member
here> get sliced to ribbons? Tune in next season to find out!')
Have fun with the new episodes...
David D. Porter: It's an awful big jump for Chakotay to assume that the message is from
Starfleet *before* Harry cleans it up.
I'm kind of curious how the owners of the relay net can locate the
recipient of the message. After all, they are receiving it. How can they
tell, from all the listeners, to whom the message is directed? That's kind
of like figuring out where my friend is hiding by listening to me shout to
him.
I notice Harry isn't worried about what Libby is doing with her life. (Note from Phil: Hmmmmm.)
How does h-doc know what other EMHs have achieved? He's been out of
touch with all but one of them for over four years.
Here we see the danger of public mail call. The messages really
should be delivered to the terminals in personal quarters. That way nobody
is publically embarassed by not getting anything. Incidentally, I think it
would have been more appropriate to wait until *all* the letters were
downloaded before distributing any.
Score another one for 'Mosaic.' In that book, Mark's last name was
indeed Johnson.
As we saw with Captain Picard, there are very good reasons for the
Captain not gtting involved with any of her crew.
John Latchem: First things First the destruction of the Maquis was first mentioned in "Blaze
of Glory." They basically established the Dominion swept through the DMZ and
destroyed them all. Didn't say what happened to Ro Laren and as far as we
know Tom Riker is still rotting in a Cardassian prison. Guess they forgot
about him. So much for Kira's promise. "We'll get you out, Tom." Yeah
right. (Note from Phil: So that's why I couldn't remember this! I missed that episode the first time around and didn't really pay attention to it the second time around! Tsk. tsk.)
Also I have been thinking about this and it is possible that Chakotay doesn't
know about the Dominion. Starfleet could have kept the existance of the
Dominion classified long enough for some Maquis cells to not know about them.
Obviously Eddington's Maquis cell knew about them. Voyager could have
disappeared just as knowledge of the Dominion was becoming more widely known.
Janeway should know about them since it seems Voyager was designed with
defenses against the Dominion in mind. Note that Jem'Hadar ships are in the
battle simulations in "Parturations." However I think what we are really
seeing is that the creators have decided it would be neater if Voyager didn't
know about the Dominion when they left and are backpeddling Trek history.
As for the power output of a black hole it is quite immense. They were
probably referring to an average G type star such as our sun. However
Chakotay's surprise at an alien race building it 100000 years ago would
probably be a genuine reaction.
BTW the destruction of the station is beautiful. I have to admit when Kim
said the containment field was collapsing I expected an explosion as we are
used to seeing in Trek. But when it started to crumble I thought "oh yeah its
a black hole it would be sucked in like that" and it was great to watch. Only
I don't think a black hole would look quite like that, nor would ships
destroyed by it look as they did going in. The event horizon is the point
where light uses all its energy trying to escape the gravity of the black
hole, so all the light seems trapped there, surrounding the black hole. Any
ships which enter the black hole would appear to be resting on the event
horizon since light from the ship would be trapped there as well. In this
sense, time stops at the event horizon. (Note from Phil: Except, I do believe that there are shearing forces as you approach the black hole since the strength of a gravitation field is equal to the inverse square of your distance from the source . . . I think. That would mean that as you approach the black hole the differential might be great enough to actually rip your ship into pieces. i did some research on this stuff for my time travel novel and if I remember correctly, the scene was pretty close!)
Now for a tangent. When this relay station subplot first popped up I figured
it was built by some ancient race. It seems clear that the Hirogen didn't
build it, but just found it and were using it like Voyager was. If the
Hirogen had built it that means they have this vast Borg like empire and I
don't see that as likely.
Last week I had an idea. Maybe these were relay stations for the Tkon
empire. Remember them? They were mentioned in "The Last Outpost." Or maybe
the Iconians. But since they use those gateways why would they need a relay
station? Perhaps the Tkon also built the Dyson sphere. Who knows?
Apparantly the creators don't since they conveniently forget about all of Star
Trek's loose ends. All of these ancient history facts have been revealed and
forgotten, and thus the creators are missing out on a chance to establish a
rich and interesting backstory. All we really know is that 4 Billion years
ago a race seeded the humanoid genes around the galaxy. This actually makes
sense. The Andromedan Kelvans from "By Any Other Name" weren't from this
galaxy, and appropriately weren't humanoid. The Caretaker was also not
humanoid (is Suspiria's true form is that multi-tentacle creature this raises
an interesting question. Weren't multi-tentacles a feature of the Kelvans).
And then 45000 years ago the Native American progenitors made Indians. And we
also have the Tkon Empire, the Iconians, the Promellians, and blue gills from
"Conspiracy," and other ancient and even current species that have been
mentioned in one episode and forgotten, only introduced because the stories
demanded it. Plus some of these have implications for the present. What
about the TOS non-parallel dimension Earths like Miri's world or the Roman
Earth. What about Miramanee's planet. This shows there is a race that only A
FEW HUNDRED YEARS AGO transplanted people off of Earth. This is the
perservers. Could they also have been responsible for transplanting the
dinosaur people of "Distant Origin?" Or bringing Romans to that other planet?
And what of the Galactic Barriers? No mention of those again. Of course I
think I am most disappointed by the fact that Voyager will probably NOT
encounter the machine race planet from the first Trek motion picture. There's
a whole story arc waiting to be exploited here. Does this planet have ties to
the Borg? Is it the Borg homeworld? Oh wait the creators fail to exploit
these ideas. Only the Iconians lived on, making an episode of DS9.
So this alien relay pops up. What is its mysterious origin? Who built it?
Maybe the Tkon. Will the creators make an obvious connection and put it
together? Well at an age of 100000 years it is to young for the Tkon(600000
years ago) and the Iconians (250000 years ago) which means there is another
ancient race out there. Maybe the Dino people built them. Just another
mystery I guess, and there could be any number of ancient races out there I
suppose, but as a fan, I want continuity, references to the past episodes to
connect them to the current ones. That's why we fans appreciate things like
the use of the Iconian gateway in "To the Death." Unfortunately the creators
do not have as extensive a memory.
This is a problem inherent to Trek. It has failed to achieve the rich
galactic historical tapestry it is capable of. All we know is what is
happening in the present 24th century. We know little of the past, despite
knowing a lot.
Joe Meslovich of Grottoes, VA: One quick question. When were the Hirogen identified as
being the Hirogen? They may have stated it in Message and
just don't remember. (Note from Phil: I believe the Hirogen were identified last episode!)
Matthew Chase Maxwell of San Francisco CA:
Phil: I liked "Hunters." I'm glad they spent most of the episode dealing
with the letters, not the Hirogen, and the tone of this episode was
correct based on the monumental discovery of the letters. (Very
welcome after the much-too-foolish "Message In A Bottle.")
I agree with comments regarding the slowness of the download of
information from the array. Seems odd after the speed of sending
Holodoc's matrix. Could it be due to the encrypted message under the
letters? I also had a problem with the loss of the message from
Paris' father. It appeared to me that at least some of the message
had been received -- they discovered that it was from the admiral
after all. Yet later, when Torres told Paris that the array was
destroyed before the entire message was received, they acted as if
none of the message was stored on the Voyager. Shouldn't Paris be
able to read what was received, even if it made little sense? If my
answering machine records the beginning of a message clearly and then
receives interference and/or is cut off, I don't lose that which has
already been taped!
The big nit is that the Hirogen's battle with the shuttle should have
been on the Voyager's screen. After all, the bridge crew could see
the array before the shuttle left the ship.
Michael Janis of Richardson, TX: I kinda liked this episode. From the previews, it seemed like it was going to
be all about the Hirogen trying to hunt the crew. I'm glad they didn't focus
on this, as it would have become tiresome (as I'm sure it will over the next
three episodes).
Nits:
It's strange to see the crew exhibiting such disregard for the dead. When the
encounter the derelict ship, Janeway immediately orders to beam the body
aboard. They have no clue as to this alien's culture. What if they "bury"
their dead by removing their organs and setting them adrift into endless space
(kinda poetic). They had no reason to believe he died due to foul play, as his
ship showed no evidence of attack, and his organs were removed in a very
careful, surgical manner (according to holodoc).
Why does Torres call Tom all the way down to the astrometrics lab? When he
gets there, we are lead to assume it's because she just downloaded a message
for him. When he tries to leave, she tells him to wait just a bit until she
can finish retrieving it, leading us to believe she is almost through. Even
when he says he has to get back to duty, she asks why he can't just wait (the
complete download of his message must be imminent). They argue and a mushy
seen ensues. Then Torres tells Tom to go, and that she will call him when his
message is ready. This implies that it will be a while until she finishes
downloading it. No wonder it's taking so long to retrieve all the data from
the Star Fleet message. Just when you think your almost through, you still got
an hour to get that last paragraph!
After the relay station implodes, Torres tells Tom that she was unable to
retrieve his message. Shouldn't she already have some of it? I mean, she's
been working on it for a while. You'd think she would have gotten farther than
"To:Tom From:Dad"?
In my opinion, passing those messages out on PADDs is a huge waste of
resources. Each of those things is probably capable of storing HUGE amounts of
data (probably somewhere in the gigabyte range). Is it really efficient to use
them to deliver ~20Kb text files? Forget e-mailing them to the crew, they
could have saved some energy by passing out hard copies!
Michael Sheehan of Macomb, Michigan: Not a bad episode, the "letters from home" subplot was just distracting enough to make the Hirogen's appearance slightly surprising (even though
we've been waiting). Man, am I gonna love seeing Species 8472 again next
week!
Some nits:
If Neelix was assigned "mailman" duty, who cooked the chicken-flavored
cornhusks that Tom was eating? Seems to me that if a Voyager crewmember
was cooking, Tom would recognize the dish. Come to think of it, is there
not one other person on Voyager with a knack for cooking? I bet Neelix
could use the break!
Kudos to the Creators for getting news of the end of the Maquis to
Voyager! The minute I heard Chakotay had a letter I "hoped" that it
would be bad news!
So they meddled with the containment field of the station's singularity
power source and it turned it into a full-grown black hole? Wow, good
thing Romulan Warbirds aren't susceptible to that kind of attack! There
would be black holes all over the Alpha and Beta Quadrants! ;)
That alien corpse in Sickbay sure looked normal for having had its
skeleton, muscles, and internal organs removed! What's left? Skin?
Good thing the Hirogen didn't want to do that to Tuvok and Seven!
Life would sure be a lot more interesting on Voyager if they did any
kind of salvage operations on the derelict ships they find occasionally!
Now I know there's been episodes where Janeway sure seemed to be
"getting on with her life", if ya know what I mean...
What would Starfleet want to encrypt underneath the letters? If they had
any sense, they would tell them about the *Borg's New And Improved Time
Travel Method!* (so simple a Starfleet engineer can reproduce it) ST:FC
I wonder if the Traveller or Super-Wesley would want to help out some
Starfleet Buddies?
Derek Giromini of Richardson, TX: "Hunters" was an interesting episode, if a bit slow-going. The Hirogen ships are pretty cool. I guess we should be thankful they aren't
repainted backward Romulan science vessels. So, on to the nits:
One of the characters in the Mess Hall that receives a letter appeared to
be female Bolian. However, wasn't the "Starfleet cadet" in the TNG
episode "Allegiance" a female Bolian? The two look very different. The
one on Voyager looks pretty much like a male. Maybe there are different
kinds of Bolians, just as there as different kinds of humans, Vulcans,
and Bajorans.
Starfleet sensors are much better than I thought. When they detected the
alien ship adrift, Harry said that there was one MALE HUMANOID aboard.
Okay, now sensors can detect gender. I guess this is too much beyond
credibility, at least for a known race, but to know off-the-bat the gender
differences of a race you've never encountered is a little silly. Later,
this seemed more ludicrous as we realize that what is left is the skin of
the alien. Since skin is really just dead cells, I wonder what the heck
the sensors detected.
I have more, but I can't remember the details of the episode, so I'll
leave any other nits I have to rest of the group.
Bob Canada: I caught Chakotay's amazement at the singularity power source too, as
did everyone else in Nitland, but later in the episode, wasn't he
marveling to Janeway about how a civilization could build something so
advanced 100,000 yrs ago? Maybe he was amazed that someone could harness
a singularuty that long ago? Or maybe the Voyager writers don't watch
NextGen.
Note also that Tom plays sort of the cabbage-head this week. When
Chakotay says the relay is powered by a singularity, Tom says, "you mean
a black hole?" There's no reason for him to bring up this (to him)
archaic term, except for our benefit. Sort of like me saying "I took
the train to work today," and you saying "You mean the steam-powered
locomotive engine?"
Is "3.8 light years away" a 47? 3 + 1=4, 8 - 1=7.
So what does this no more Maquis news mean to the crew? Do they all get
regular round pips on their uniforms now? I seriously doubt ALL the
Maquis could be dead. Any underground resistance group worth its salt
would have many many individual cells spread around, each unaware of the
location and makeup of the other; that way if a member was captured he
honestly couldn't rat the other cells out. Edington and his cell are
gone, but...Methinks it was propaganda aimed at Voyager's Maquis
crewmembers.
About Harry detecting the dead humanoid--didn't you do a whole thing in
your DS9 guide about tricorders not being able to detect a dead body,
because they emitted no lifesigns, or something to that effect?
The relay builders weren't THAT advanced. Yeah, they could harness
hundreds of singularities, but they had no defense against a power surge
that would travel from unit to unit, taking down the ENTIRE array? Is
20th century earth the only civilization to ever invent fuses?
Patrick Wenker: The Hirogens used a term to indicate distance (4000 something or other) that
was not translated to be recognizable to the viewer. Why then, did the
Hirogen use the term 'hours' in the same sentence? I guess they can't be
entirely different from us.
Tony H Forbes: After many, many weeks of reruns...this is what we got. Hmmmm...I guess
I won't complain. The opening was really good and suspensful, and the
character stuff in the middle was good, but the ending was LAME!!!! You
can nullify a black hole just like that?
The crew seems amazed that the Hirojen (sp?) or someone has harnessed
the power of a quantum singularaty (read: black hole), and yet, the
Romulans use a similar device! WARNING: THIS IS ABOUT TO BECOME A RANT.
The Federation, thanks to the follies of the good ship Enterprise-D,
knows about the Romulans' power source. They may not know much about it,
but they know that it exists. Ergo, why is the relay power source so
WOW? This is part of a continuing series of info snafus that I now label
"The Voyager Computer: Stuck in the Delta Quadrant" We've seen several
episodes where the crew seems to contradict knowledge given in the
previous Trek universe. "We don't know much about Transwarp" was
contradicted by the "Descent" 2-parter, and "Threshold" and the "Great
Experiment Excelsior" from the movies. "We can handle protomatter" Oh
yeah? ST:II contradicts the ease at which the crew could deal with the
stuff. Now for the flip side. The UPN previews billed "Message In a
Bottle" as the "unleashing of a new enemy" or some other such nonsense.
This indicates that this is the first time they've dealt with the
Hirojen. Yet Kim seems to identify the Hirojen ship rather easily,
considering that they haven't seen one of those ships before.
Arrrgggghh...
The doors are peeking at the script again. When Paris stalks out of
Astrometrics al B'Lanna calls him back, and Paris stops just short of the
door. It doesn't budge.
When 7/9 and Tuvok's shuttle is attacked, we get a nifty camera angle
that shoots below the chairs the two are sitting in. We get a good nit
this way. RANT WARNING. The exterior shot shows the ship shooting at the
shuttle. The shots seems to be hitting mostly in the rear of the
shuttle. Going inside, we can now see a window above the aforementioned
chairs. When the shuttle is attacked, sparks fly and there is smoke, but
it all seems to be coming from OUTSIDE THE SHUTTLE. The outside shots
show flame, but no sparks and certainly no smoke. Next, let us assume
that the Hirojen are hitting the shields at a point just out side those
windows. The shields are now a hinderance! Think about it. When the H
hit at a point on the shields that actually protects the shuttle, that's
okay. But if the shields weren't there, the shots near the windows would
whizz into space! With the shields there, the shots hit, and drain the
shields, therefore taking protection away from vital spots.
Pamala Knowlton: Why wasn't Janeway more concerned about the alien remains? I'd really
be wondering what or who would do such a thing, and whether or not my
crew was next.
Also, no one mentioned the loved ones of the crew members that have been
lost. In the previous episode to Hunters, Captain Janeway was busy
planning her letter to Mark. Shouldn't she have been composing letters
of condolence to those families?
Seems like her reaction to Mark's letter impaired her judgement. That
Hirojin that Seven zapped did not seem like the kind of personality that
would forgive another intrusion. It should not have been a surprise
that they were attacked, yet they seemed unprepared for it.
Also, this episode got me wondering what the body count is. Seems to me
in the first season, they barely had enough people to keep the ship
running, yet even with additional losses, there is no indication anyone
is being overworked.
Jason Liu: Hi, Phil. In response to the comments about the Maquis - I believe
we were, in fact, told about the Maquis' plight in DS9. There was that one
episode ("Blaze of Glory", I think), where we learn that, with the help of
the Dominion, the Cardassians basically wiped out all of the Maquis. The
few survivors holed up at what was supposed to be a secret Maquis base.
Unfortunately, the Jem'Hadar find out about it, kill many of the Maquis
there, and imprison the rest. Sisko, along with his old friend Michael
Eddington, manage to rescue the prisoners, with Eddington sacrificing
himself in the process.
Based on this information, I think it's safe to assume that the
Maquis no longer exists as a viable organization, with most of the members
killed by the Dominion, and the rest hiding (or incarcerated) in the Federation.
Aaron Nadler of New Cumberland, PA: I was watching "Hunters" on Wednesday, and a couple of things caught my eye.
If the relay station's containment field protects the rest of the local space
from the quantam singularity, how can the station survive inside the
containment field?
There was a great line by Seven of Nine, to the Hirogens--"What possible use
could you have for my intestine?"
If the Romulans used an artificial quantum singularity to power their
Warbirds, how did they overcome the "shimmies" caused by a the real
singularity?
Aren't black holes supposed to be black ?? They are black because they attract
all light strongly enough that none can escape, leaving it almost invisible.
It looked VERY visible in this episode... (Note from Phil: Well the actual black hole was only supposed to be a few centimeters across. See my comments above.)
Brian Henley: Good episode! Although I don't realy think I but the notion of
these bad guys yet. Trek hasn't had much luck when they try to come up
with bad guys that are worse then the Borg. The Jem 'Haddar ar okay. THe
Cardiasians were kinda lame and the Kazon were almost as bad as the
Ferengi. I have to see these baddies in action a little longer before I
pass a verdict.
Great lines, great premise development with the letters from home.
Kathrine's now know's she's single (can anyone say "sweeps month"?)and
Be'lanna and Chakotay now of the Maquis demise.
But there were nits .... oh, yes there were nits.
ASBTD- There goes one of the hot rod shuttles, Saw that one coming.
NEWS- The previews go to a lot a trouble to tell us that species 8472 is
gonna make a comeback. and that these new guys who look like Mr. Freeze
are going to be a continuing pestelince. I can just see a premise now.
Turn the hunters against 8472!
CHANGED PREMISE? Well well well well well!! Vulcans CAN lie! I
heard bells, whistles and klaxons going off in the heads of every
nitpicker when I heard Tuvok give this line.
I know this has to violate some of TOS episodes. Unfortunatley I
don't know which ones. (Note from Phil: I'm not sure it does!)
But never mind. The movies are full of references to Vulcans and
the truth. Star Trek 4: "I cannot tell a lie" but this can be written off
as a non-nit (albeit begrudgingly) since Spock may have just been
protesting that it's unethical to lie.
Okay so Vulcs can lie. Then why did Spock in ST5: The final
frontier say to Captian Klaa, "I am a VUlcan. I am incapable of lying."
The answer is simple right? Spock was LYING!
BUT Why then, in ST:6 did spock go out of his way to describe his
"bending the truth" as anything but lying. He "lied" at least three times
and Valaris once....
Question: "A Lie?"
Why couldn't he just grin a little and say "yup." and then be done
with it? (Note from Phil: It was a cute bit and I thought very much in character for Spock.)
BILC: Torres calles Janeway down to the communications room and
shows her the footage of the array shutting down. But if this had already
happend, so that Torres saw what was happening and notified the Captian of
it, why does Janeway get a shot of the array shutting down. Couldn't
Torres just say "The arrays's fryed. All of it. All of them short
circuted" Sounds cheaper then showing herall the spots going dark.
SInce the folks back home are busy fighting the Dominion, AND they
have no clue as to the limits of the their space, I sure hope that
Starfleet command sent Voyager pictures of the Gamma Quadrent baddies. "By
the by, if you see any thee ugly lookin' guys, shoot 'em." But they'll be
okay. After all, they're in another show altogether.
Murray Leeder: 1000 times better than "Message In A Bottle".
Were Voyager's external sensors on vacation this episode? Several times
throughout the episode they only noticed nearby vessels far later than
they should have.
So how come Tuvok was sent in the shuttle with Seven? Isn't Paris the
best pilot on board?
Speaking of Tuvok, why is it that he launched the distress beacon only
as an afterthough?
Did anyone else notice that Act 4 was extremely short... like only five
minutes!?
The nit about the Romulans has been taken several times now, but what I
found curious is that the Hirogen used the same terminology as the
"Timescape" aliens - gravity well!
Steve Braun of Houston Texas: These are the only nits I came up with that haven't already been said:
They really have to get all of the personal letters before reading the
important information underneath? Sometimes I think all alien races should
just go back to DOS, makes everything a lot simpler. (Note from Phil: My impression was that the secret message had somehow been multiplexed beneath the letter so they would have had to read all the letter first.)
The "important message" that they had to read the personal letters first to
get to was "heavily encrypted." Probably millions of times better than the
national encryption standard now. And they got most of the message. They'll
probably decrypt it. I have tried this in the past, encrypting a file, cut off
the end and decrypting it. The message is really distorted and corrupted.
Maybe they should just send good old ASCII messages.
Is Harry really that pessimistic?
What did B'Elanna and Chakotay think would happen to the Maquis in the
Alpha quadrant? (Note from Phil: No doubt, they thought the Maquis would be victorious in their fight with the Cardassians.)
Jacob Boxer: I'd have to say that the major nit from this episode is the shuttle scenes. We
run into the age old problem which has plagued Star Trek since TNG. The
shuttles are moving at high speeds, but the windows only show slightly moving
backgrounds.
The whole episode in general was pretty poor. For instance, why do the Hirogen
need breathing masks on their own ship? It seems a little strange. I can
understand why Mendon needed one on TNG. He was on a federation starship and
he came from another world. Wouldn't a Hirogen ship have Hirogen atmosphere? (Note from Phil: The mask may have been for decoration more than function.)
Yet another possible plot has been blown. That relay station could have
provided a great deal of stories. They could have recieved regular updates on
the Alpha Quadrant situation. I think they did a terrible job of eliminating
the station from the story. The whole relay station (Which extends almost to
the Alpha Quadrant!) is damaged by one black hole?
Anthony Neff, New York City: I have a couple of comments (anti-nits, actually) for this week's ep:
First off, they're about 60,000 ly's from the Feds. Someone asked if this
number was correct and for the most part, it is. Here's why -- 70,000 ly's
takes about 70-75 years @ highest warp. After 3 years, presumably, that means
that there's 67,000 left (at a rate of 1000 ly's per year). Now, Kes kicked
the ship 9500 ly's closer to home, which leaves us with 57500. I'm sure that
the exact distance the Caretaker yanked them away was not right at 70,000
ly's. That in mind, 60,000 ly's is a (very) rough estimate.
Someone also said that it was rude to use the array, etc ... Hmmm ... if I
EVER were to wind up 70,000 some odd ly's or some distance like that from home
and I had the slight chance to contact home AND possibly receive a response,
I'M DOIN' IT, I don't care if it meant facing direct and unavoidable
confrontation the Borg, S#8472, The Hirogen, the Swarm, the Kazon, and any
other race encountered on VGR combined!!
That's about it. A good ep. A little sad about Janeway's erstwhile fiance
marrying someone else, but I loved how "Chuckles" took the immediate
opportunity to step in!! :)
Joe Griffin: [Concerning the sensibility of Seven and Tuvok leaving the ship to make sure Voyger could get the letters from home,] You're forgetting about the secret message and the Captain Midnight Decoder Ring.
Poor Harry. It's really very hard to hide an office crush. Especially
when your behavior is so childish and transparent.
On a side note, I wonder: do deer, rabbits, and foxes come to the
conclusion that humans have "no moral center" when they find themselves
being hunted? (Note from Phil: I too found Tuvok's statement a bit presumptious!)
Matthew Patterson: Just why does Starfleet use automated distress signals? How are they
supposed to know whether it's a real Starfleet officer or some
malevolent alien? Would it really be that hard to set it up so an
individually recorded message is the default setting? I guess it's
easier to just hit a button and send a distress signal, but couldn't
they at least include password protection and include the password with
the signal? Or a DNA scan? Or a retinal scan? Or a combadge
cross-technobabble identification? I know, I know, at ease. And also why
in the world is there an anti-thoron pulse system? Do they really use
the things that much?
Oh well. An OK episode. At least they acknowledged that there are
former Maquis aboard Voyager. And they destroyed a shuttle. They haven't
done that since at least "Concerning Flight," and in "Mortal Coil," they
actually saved one. I was starting to feel deprived.
[From Someone Identified Only As Hefferman]: Saw "Hunters" the other night - wished they had spent more time dealing with
this new alien species rather than all this sappiness with the letters. Tom
Paris was especially pathetic. Anyway, on to the nits:
So, Vulcans *can* lie now? I guess McCoy was wrong in "The Menagerie Pt.1"
then. ("Jim, the simple fact that he [Spock] is a Vulcan means he's incapable
of telling a lie!" Of course, Spock does lie about receiving a message from
Captain Pike in that episode, but I attributed that to his human half.) (Note from Phil: Or McCoy was exaggerating as the good doctor was apt to do. Or he belived the Vulcan propoganda!)
The sensors work well enough for Janeway to scan the relay station, but not
well enough to find the shuttle sitting right next to it, nor the ships coming
to attack the shuttle?
I for one like Belanna's jacket - since she's an engineer, she now has the
24th century equivalent of the pocket protector for her tools. Now if they
could get her to wear some glasses with tape on the bridge...
Brian O'Marra, Little Rock, AR: I agree with my fellow nitpickers. Good episode. I like the plot about letters
from home. A nice touch of closure. Also, those Hirogen look very huge. My
guess: good special effects. (Note from Phil: Or they hired huge guys to play the parts!)
I have just finished watching my recording of the episode and have perused the
other nitpickers' submissions and I think I may have a couple more nits...
Obervation...Does the first Hirogen's voice sound a little familiar? It sounds
like the actor who played Worf's brother Kurn on the TNG episode, "Sins of the
Father" but altered just a bit. Of course, I could be just imagining things...
On to the nits...
So Vulcans lie, eh? According to Tuvok, they only do it while under orders
from a superior officer. However in the episode "Concerning Flight, " Tuvok
told DaVinci he was from Scandinavia. This is a lie. Who ordered him to say
that? I know, maybe Janeway ordered it when we were in commercials.
This isn't the only Vulcan who has lied. In the classic episode "A Taste of
Armageddon," Spock told the guard on Eminiar VII, "there is a multilegged
creature crawling on your shoulder." There wasn't, so Spock lied. What
superior officer ordered that? Kirk? He had by this time already been captured
and held hostage by Anan 7.
Next week's episode looks good! Until then...
Ross A. Fillmore, Columbus, OH: For a title like "Hunters" there sure wasn't much hunting going on. We were half an hour into the show before the action picked up. I almost
thought we were into a two-parter.
I know now why there were no guest appearances listed in the opening
credits. Their roles weren't that big. I wonder if the Grand Nagus knows
his valet likes to wear scary clothes and hunt down other species in the
Delta Quadrant?
7's take to the Doctor about his hero remark was great! I laughed out
loud!
Species 5174... there's a reverse 47. And again we have a species that was
encountered by the Borg and yet not fully assimilated. Can you imagine
these guys boarding a Borg ship, and the Borg ignoring them until they
considered them a threat... EASY PICKINGS! These guys could disembowl a
whole bunch of Borg before the Borg strike back. But just think how
ominous the Borg would be if they HAD assimilated a bunch of them. These
dudes are big! Look how they dwarf 7 and Tuvok! Puny efforts, my left
foot! I thought they were quite brave to stand up to these guys! I would
have been jello!
Janeway's discovery that the transmissions were messages from home made me
mist up. Touching.
This space station contained a black hole? I'M impressed. We'll have to
see what Stephen Hawking says about this.
Neelix, will you drop the "Mr. Vulcan" already?
When Neelix is reading Tuvok's letter, is it in Vulcan, English, or some
kind of Star Fleet standard? Does the UV translate text?
I've read several queries about B'Elanna's pocket-thingy. Actually it
looks like a smock that she wears over her jacket. I saw definite layers
there.
Voyager's scanners couldn't pick up the alien ship before it attacked the
shuttle? Did I miss something?
And speaking of shuttles... oh, never mind. That was too easy! What's the
death toll on these things now?
When Beta-Hirogen was talking with Alpha-Hirogen about the location of
Voyager, he uses a unit of time called a "ketric." Then the Alpha-Hirogen
comes back with engaging them within the "hour." Do they even know what
kind of time system they're on?
KMYTF moment at the end. Chuckles knows that Cap'n J is available. Will
we see candy? flowers? a big bottle of, uh... of... "it-is-green"?
Simon de Vet: Say.... You don't think the writers have watched the movie "Contact"
recently, have they? (great movie, BTW) Let's see :)
Contact: Opens with radio signals being sent through space, as we travel
through the solar system.
Hunters: Opens with subspace signals travelling through space, as we
travel through various spacial anomolies.
Contact: Aliens sent basic message (prime numbers) to get our attention.
Hunters: Starfleet sends basic message (Hello, essentially) to get our
attention.
Contact: Message hidden in first signal. (Hitler broadcast)
Hunters: Message hidden in first signal. (Letters from home)
Contact: Technical message hidden in second signal (construction
diagrams)
Hunters: Technical message hidden in second signal (Maps and tech data)
Even the special effects were very similar. They would _never_ have
copied, now would they? Nahhh.... (Note from Phil: Only so many ideas in the world.)
BTW, my father keeps calling Seven: 649. Don't know if this has any
meaning in the States, but it's a lottery here in Canada :)
Corey Hines, Hamilton, ON: Some of the bladed weapons on the wall of
the Hirogen ship look familar. One is used in Worf's calistatics
program and one was a Starfleet device in "Phantasms"(TNG).
Brian Dominguez: I want to know what process B'lana used to retrieve these messages.
First, she tells Harry that she hasn't seen a letter come in yet for
him. Then she calls Tom to tell him that a letter is coming in for
him--who seconds later, discover it is his father.
Fast forward to the end of the show, There's a FULL letter for Harry,
but NOTHING at all for Tom. I'm not sure who she was more cruel to,
Harry or Tom. It seems as though there must have been a letter for
Harry BEFORE Tom's came into existence. So why didn't she call Harry
who she knew was ancy about getting a letter.
I've tried to justify it by saying it was the process used. I they were
looking into the matrix of mixed letters and extrapolating one person's
letter at a time, then getting a person's full letter makes sense. But
that's illogical because since the signal was degrading, they would have
just gotten every word that they could get and then figure it out
later. I don't know, what do you think, Phil and the gang? (Note from Phil: I think it's goofy that Paris didn't get at least a piece of a letter and the most likely explanation is that he did and Torres destroyed it.)
However, someone wondered how the Hirogen survived after Tuvok cut his
neck. Who says he has a jugular vain there. I thought it was a nice
touch for the creators to remember that slicing an aliens throat doesn't
have to mean death.
Also, I think Chakote and others were amazed that the relay station's
energy source was a quantam sigularity because it was built 100,000
years ago (or 99, 600 to us).
David T. Shaw, from Hamilton, Ontario: I have a comment to add to some of the nits about the power source being a singularity and how that isn't a big deal because the Romulans use them.
The way that I interperted it, was that Romulians used an artificial
singularity, i.e. one with no black hole around it. If you think about
this, this makes sense, for a starship couldn't afford to lug around the
extra mass.
However, the relay stations had actual black holes in their power
supply. This would impress me, for although an artificial singularity is
harder to make, it would be very difficult to build a station that could
survive the proximately to an actual black hole. So the crew of Voyager was
impressed by the engineering involved, not the science.
Of course, I could be wrong and just being nice to the writers, but
I haven't done that before....
Let the debate continue.
Julia Lundman of Oak Park, IL: I'm glad to see that the writers have not lost their sense of humor!
Holodoc is examining 7o9 and says to her that they need to monitor her
implants more closely. Did anyone notice that the Doc was looking at 7o9's
borgs when he said that? (Note from Phil: Ahem!)
2/23/98 Update
Scott Newton of New Brunswick, NJ: Good episode from a characterization point of view, with the letters. I was disappointed that the relay station was destroyed at the end. Now,
on to the nits:
Laying aside Voyager's apparent lack of e-mail facilities, isn't it
rather rude to deliver messages in front of people who didn't get one?
After all, this isn't your typical mail call. Anyone who was hoping for
a message and didn't get one is going to be REALLY disappointed.
I don't understand why Paris didn't get at least part of his message.
Dialogue between him and B'Elanna indicates that part of it had come
through, but at the end it was totally wiped out?
At one point, 7 says to the Hirogen that only their physical size makes
them powerful. She's becoming more human all the time; now she's
learning how to brag and make idle threats. Consider this, 7: They
caught your shuttle and could have killed you and Tuvok if they wanted
to; they built and maintained a network of relay stations that spans the
galaxy; they're able to build these stations around -- and harness the
energy of -- black holes, which they apparantly can contain and move
wherever they want; and Voyager couldn't even approach their relay
station without being torn apart. I don't know about anyone else, but it
sounds to me like they have a lot more going for them than physical
size! (Note from Phil: Good point but I'm not sure it was established that the Hirogen built the relay stations!)
It's been a long time since I've taken Physics or Astronomy, so you
might want to check with Mitzi Adams about these next two:
At the end of the episode, the Hirogen ship is being pulled into the
black hole, so Voyager locks a tractor beam on them, and the Hirogen
ship actually slows down! I'm confused. I would have thought that,
unless Voyager's tractor beam is more powerful than the black hole, one
of two things would happen: Either the tractor beam would break almost
instantly, or Voyager would be pulled right along with the Hirogen
ship.
Just a few moments later, Harry beams 7 and Tuvok off the doomed Hirogen
ship. Since not even light can escape a black hole's gravitational pull,
and a transporter beam is basically a beam of energy, I don't see how
it's possible for anyone to beam off a ship that's under the
gravitational influence of a black hole. (On the other hand, 7 and Tuvok
DO have something more powerful than a black hole: A contract! ;-) ) (Note from Phil: I believe that all the talk of light not being able to escape from a black hole concerns the event horizon. Nothing can escape once it has crossed a black hole's event horizon but I believe that had not occurred yet with either the Hirogen ship or Voyager.)
Finally, file this one under "groaners:" (you've been warned): The
Captain tells Chakotay that she got a "Dear John" letter. Actually, it's
more of a "Dear Jane-way" letter!
John Latchem: After reading the latest batch of nits, and responses to nits I sent In, I need to make a few clarifications.
First UPN is making the correct choice. Remember these are the WINTER, not
Summer, Olympics. The audience is always smaller, but ratings are still
pretty big. Not so this year. Ratings are way down. I for one have little
interest in the games, and wouldn't miss them if they were gone. They just
don't seem to have the pull that the summer games have. I was hooked in 1996
and suffered Olympic withdrawl when the games were over. The Winter games
just don't pull me in. So I am glad it is sweeps so other networks can show
new programming. I'd much rather watch a new Voyager than Figure Skating.
NBC and ABC have basically conceded the sweeps period to CBS, but Fox has
stated they aren't laying down, and it paid off for them, they finished ahead
of ABC in the latest ratings period. It is called counterprogramming, and it
is standard practice to offer alternatives to hugely rated shows for different
audiences.
As for the black hole problem, I realize that gravity can tear a ship apart as
it approaches the singularity. However we wouldn't actually see it enter the
black hole. Any ship or debris would appear frozen on the event horizon.
I've done some research on this too. In fact, a black hole is basically the
ultimate "black body." This objects are so named because they absorb light.
The trick is, these objects are never black! A black hole can never be seen
because the event horizon will completely surround it, and make it appear
white hot! At least, that's what everything I read has said. (Note from Phil: Had heard about the "white-hot" thing. Perhaps my sources are a bit behind the current theories! ;-)
Carla Bandeira, Voorhees, NJ: Just wanted to clear up everybody's
(obvious) confusion about B'Elanna's outfit (if I see one more
question/comment about it I'll scream!) This isn't a uniform or jacket but what the creators seem bent
on calling her "Engineering smock"-- thus the tool pocket and stuff...
The actress, Roxann Dawson, who plays B'Elanna Torres, is way pregnant
in these newer eps and this is their attempt at hiding the pregnancy
(BTW, Ms. Dawson just gave birth a few weeks ago to a baby girl, so the
smock will soon be history....) However, B'Elanna the character is NOT
pregnant and Ms. Dawson's pregnancy will only be shown once in this
season on the holodeck.
Argh, got that out of my mind now. (Note from Phil: Um . . . yeah, we know she's pregnant. We're just having a little fun with it! ;-)
Jeffrey Bays of Marshall, MO: (32mins into show) Why does the inside of the shuttle shake violently, but not on the outside? Tuvok and Seven are bouncing around, (so is the
camera) yet all the shots of the outside show the ship flying smoothly.
And if you look out the windows, the stars are not shaking. If this
little shuttle was bouncing around, those stars would appear to be
bouncing around, too! Maybe this was a defect in the artificial gravity
system... but wouldn't that be a nuisance ;-)
Brian: Alot of my fellow nitpicker's have asked why Chakotay was
so amazed by the array, when the Romulans use Quantum Singularitys in
their warbirds. Well, the Romulans use ARTIFICIAL micro-singularities.
The Hirogen thing? It was built around an ALREADY EXSISTING black hole!
Now that's talent!
Rob Melton: Notes on Nits: As near as I remember, it was the romulans who believed
that Vulcans cannot lie. I tend to agree with Tuvok that they simply
rarely find it logical to lie. They probably don't even use lies like "I
love your new outfit", since they have no egos to bruise or feelings to
spare.
The Hirogen say, "They are the first of their race". Didn't they notice
that Tuvok and Seven are different species? Seven is actually a
combination of two species, Human and Borg. Actually, there are several
species on voyager and different races among the species. Tuvok and
Vorik are different races of the same species, as are Janeway and
Chakotay. Wouldn't this confuse a potential enemy? Also, because of this
fact, wouldn't the Hirogen want to know which of the species captured
was the dominant, or more worthy prey?
I liked the episode, but I am especially looking forward to next week's.
Ed Watson: I've just been reading through the nits for "Hunters". I didn't have a
chance to read them all, but I noticed one about Chakotay only
mentioning "a species from the Gamma Quadrant".
I went back to my episode lists and discovered that DS9's "The Search",
where we learned about the changelings being the Founders and all about
the Dominion, happened four months prior to the beginning of "Voyager".
That would make Chakotay's line a nit. He (and I'm assuming the rest of
the Maquis) knew about the Dominion before Voyager got swept into the
Delta Quadrant.
Lisa Solinas: After watching this episode, I only have one thing to say: you
weirdo writers! I love you! stay away from my house!
Apparently there was a naughty word in Mark's letter. I
expected Neelix to scream.
Someone asked how the Hirogen captain could survive with
a slit throat. Previous dialogue had insinuated that Hirogen
physiology is very different from Vulcan or human. Suppose
the trachea was somewhere else; the captain would be in pain,
but not dying.
Yes! the Maquis WERE wiped out. Like bugs in the dust. Sisko
attacked that Jem'Hadar with a pipe, remember? Creating a cute
bitta dialogue: "Attacking two Jem'Hadar with a pipe? That's
your brilliant strategy?" "Could be worse." "Yeah, it could be ME
holding the pipe."
Was Chakotay's buddy in that Maquis team that Sisko evacuated
in "Blaze of Glory"? Since she's in prison this seems logical. The
Cardassians execute their prisoners and the Dominion either
executes them or sends them to internment camps with no mail
service.
Being sucked into a black hole from close range would take a LOT
less time!
The Hirogen are being VERY DISAPPOINTING. I wanted someone
like the Jem'Hadar. Instead we get VERY UGLY aliens who seem
to have lifestyles with no real purpose. I want some sort of bridge so
we can see some Dominion action. And I am getting Weyoun
withdrawal. I WANNA SEE A VORTA!
The dead alien does not look like a spacesuit. It looks [surprise surprise]
like a rubber prosthesis.
Ah, Torres has a pocket protecter. Maybe she can get some glasses,
dye her hair, get a flip-up tie...
Brian O'Marra: Yes! Yes! It is! I checked!
It seems a little un-Vulcan for Tuvok to pronounce judgement on the
Hirogen. Take the Jem'Hadar, who were basically pronounced
irretrievable as far as morality goes. Goran'Agar gave up his life for
his men and O'Brian and Julian in "Hippocratic Oath. Ometi'Klan
put his life in danger and put his feelings on the line in "To the Death".
Ikat'Ika gave up his life to save Worf's in "By Inferno's Light."
Ramata'Klan died following orders in "Rocks and Shoals". Who says
the Hirogen are incapable of moral behavior?
Mark Bowman: After the mention of the files deteriorating
in the relay, I have to wonder how it's happening. I assume
that the messages were stored on something simaler to a
hard disk in the station. Unless the media was deteriorating
(and if it is, scince the station is ancient, it probaly would
have deteriorated to the point nothing could be recorded), I
don't see how it could be possible. Or did she mean the
signal was stuck inside the relay station? That dosen't make
sense either, scince a signal can't become "stuck" inside
something (It would be like saying that a video signal is stuck
inside your television set).
Steve Oostrom, Oshawa, ON: I may not be much on astrophysics and black holes, but it seems to be that a black hole by itself is not going to produce any energy, and certainly
not the terawatts of power (or whatever) the relay station was producing.
Energy apparently coming from a black hole is probably coming from the
material being sucked into the black hole, and this begs the question on
what has been sucked into that black hole for the past hundred thousand
years. (Note from Phil: Good point! In the "real" world, black holes put off a lot of energy as matter is consumed by the singularity but this singularity has been encased!)
Otherwise, it was a decent episode, except for obvious nits already picked
(Tom's missing letter, Voyager's missing sensors, predictable-looking bad
guys and so on).
Alex Smith of Westfield, NJ: About the encryption: For many current standards of encryption, the
whole message is required to decrypt the whole thing. You'll get junk if
you attempt to decrypt a partial message, as the encryption depends on
the length and sometimes the content of the message. I am assuming here
that there is some Voyager specific key used to decrypt the msg here...
And the singularity: The problem I have is that a singularity is just
that - infinite mass and zero volume. The event horizon is supposed to
shroud it so that we can't tell how large it is in reality :). Although
Hawking did lose a bet last year about "naked" singularities... And as
for the inverse square law stuff; well, where do you measure from? How
do you know where the singularity is? Also, if the singularity is
spinning, then it could gather a disk of gasses around it. Now how they
managed to contain it... I'm not touching it.
Can tuvok be anymore obvious: "I doubt we'll see the last of them." at
the end of the episode referring to the Hirogen. Duhhh, FORSHADOWING.
Kind of blatant on the part of the writers...
Anyone else think the series should be renamed Star Trek: Friends? Too
much touchy-feely stuff for my taste; why aren't they doing their
jobs?!?
PLEASE NOTE: This file is frozen. I think we've done all we're going to do on it!
If you would like to add some comments,
drop
me a note at chief@nitcentral.com with the Subject line "Hunters". Please include your real name, city and state (or province
and county as the case may be) in the body of the e-mail so I can give you
credit if you are the first person to bring up a particular nit. (Remember
the legalese: Everything you submit becomes mine and you grant me the right
to use yourname in any future publication by me. I will do my best to give
you credit if you are the first person to submit a particular nit but I make
no guarantees. And finally, due to the volume of mail received at Nitpicker
Central, your submission may or may not be acknowledged but that entry will make you a part of the Nitpickers Guide if you aren't one already!)
Spock : "An Error." "A malfuction" "an omission"
Copyright 1998 by Phil Farrand. All Rights Reserved.