3/9/98 Update (Note from Phil: A quick reminder. It is not my intention to upload every message that I receive on an episode. I will always upload comments--i.e. "I enjoyed the episode." "I felt like the episode lacked . . ."--but if a nit has already been picked, it's picked . . . unless I decide to list it twice because it's repicked in a funny way or I just wasn't certain it had already been picked and I was bombing through my mail and I let it pass just in case!)
Derek Moffitt: NANJAO: This week's Voyager episode will be titled "The Killing Game",
making it the first Trek episode (of *any* series) to begin with the
letter K. That leaves only X and Z unused. Just thought you might like
to know.
Incidentally, in that episode, the Hirogen cast Janeway as a member of the
WWII French resistance. Excuse me, but wouldn't that be the *Maquis*?!
In-joke alert!
One more comment: I realise that you're not running a spoiler page here,
but FYI, that encoded message that everyone is talking about will remain
encoded until the season finale. Meaning it's going to be hovering in the
background for the next eight episodes. Aargh!
Well, that's about all I can say until I get to watch the actual episode.
I hope that at least some of those comments weren't too off-base.
Scott McClenney: Was I the only one who was confused by the beginning of this episode?I felt like I walked into the middle. Despite that it was another great outing. Great lines:"Her legs!"Harry
remembering just in time Betty Grable's most memorable features. "One day the Borg will encounter your species and they will assimilate you despite your attempts at resistance.On that day remember me!"7 to the Hirogen Nazi.
How come the Hirogen used Harry to fix all the systems,wouldn't B'lanna have been a better
choice,after all she is the chief engineer!(Maybe they felt she would be more liable to
sabotage.)
Brian Lombard: I've broken up my nits by episode:
Part I
The Hirojen commander expresses concern that within 1,000 years, no
one will remember the Hirojen name. His subordinate then says that
when they've finished hunting their prey, they'll simply move off into
new areas of space, to find new prey. Wait a minute. Aren't these the
same guys who built an elaborate relay station to the alpha quadrant?
Haven't they pretty much covered the galaxy? (I'm beginning to suspect
that the Hirojen merely "acquired" those relays). (Note from Phil: That's always been my guess!)
Seven gave a "47" as she was counting the francs Janeway's club had
taken in.
Not really a nit, just an observation. I'm pretty sure the town of
St. Cloud was filmed at Universal Studios. I recognized the set
immediately, as it's part of the backlot tour the studio offers.
Right before Torres cracks the code, the radio plays a very
familiar song. (I'm sorry, I know nothing of WW II music) But I have
heard this particular song before, in the classic episode "The City On
The Edge Of Forever".
Part II
When Chuckles' squad arrives in Janeway's bar, Torres looks at
Paris and says "Bobby!". This is an in-joke. Robert Duncan McNeill
goes by Bobby.
I'm sure 100 other people will point this out, but the holo-thingy
Janeway gives the Hirojen at the end is the same device Barclay used
for Moriarty's program in "Ship In A Bottle".
Why did Janeway and company keep having to transport the Doctor to
other areas of the ship? Decks 5 through 12 were one big holodeck. (I
guess the Hirojen must have turned on the power on Deck 9, because
Janeway and company permanently turned it off in "Parallax".)
Vicki Strzembosz: I enjoyed watching this but its so long that I can't even
remember half the stuff I noticed as it was being played. First of all,
how do folks who do not have holodeck technology and have never seen
anyone else's holodeck, invent a device which interacts with the human
brain and the holodeck computors? What do they know about the
functioning of another species' brains? Maybe the doctor invented
it...but if they ordered him to invent it he would be violating his own
Prime Directive -- Primum Non Nocere. I think his program would shut
down or freeze or something. Next question--whose bones were those
hanging in the captains ready room? Do these Hunters carry around their
own room decorations so they feel right at home when they take over a
ship? The bones are most likely to be crewmembers, but I doubt that in
subsequent episodes the casualty list will be discussed. There had to
be real casualties, and there had to be survivors who could not be
completely set right. Even with magic medical technology there would be
some stuff that the doctor couldn't cure. Then we have the same old
questions--This ship is too invader friendly. Disengage the Universal
Translator. Have the turbolifts electrocute anyone with DNA the ship
doesn't recognize. And most important questions of all---WHERE ARE
SAMANTHA AND NAOMI??? Once again, in any tiny closed community the only
child would be the first concern of every adult (well maybe not Seven,
but certainly eveyone else).
Alexander Shearer: I felt a need to correct one comment Dan Ferguson made, regarding
asian (particularly Japanese) U.S. citizens during the war. Yes, a great
many were interned (I recommend reading up on this -- it's depressing, but
worth knowing) but a large number also fought in the European theater. In
fact, many citizens of Japanese ancestry were fighting in Europe while their
families lived in internment camps in the middle of nowhere back in the States.
Especially in occupied France, it's not implausible to see an asian,
either military or civilian (except in so much as finding an uncaptured
American civilian might be a little funky). Anyway, the Hirogen programming
was a little tweaked, since no one worries about the occasional lack of
period appearances...:)
Michael Apple: What a fun episode. I'd always thought it would be great if they'd
increase the holodecks to fill the entire ship. That actor that played the
Nazi leader was OUTSTANDING. Move over, Ralph Fiennes! Plenty of stuff to
nitpick, though.
So, the Hirogen have wired up the crewmembers to think they are part
of the simulation and they've turned off the safeties. How would they get
the safeties offline? We've seen in prior ST episodes that it takes the
authorization of two command officers to do so. (ST:TNG "Descent") I
seriously doubt that Janeway or any of the rest of the command staff would
have agreed to do so under any circumstances.
We've now seen that it is possible to increase the holodeck surface
area to cover the entire ship. Why not make some holographic crew members
then? They could do repairs and such as well as a real crew member, plus
you could program it so they can't get hurt by attacks. (Imagine the story
lines that could come out of this!)
Why was the Doctor shoved around a lot during the episode? We've seen
before that he can make it so attacks will go right through him. But in
this ep, he gets knocked around by everyone, Klingons, soldiers, and
Hirogen.
Speaking of the Klingons, wasn't their "army" pretty small? As far as
I could tell, there were only three warriors for most of the episode, with
another twenty or so appearing at the end to fight the Nazis.
All the armies were pretty small, really. They talked about artillery, but never showed any, and there didn't seem to be any units larger than
platoons. And why, exactly, was Captain Chakotay moving into the city with
the advance units? That seems more like a job for Lieutenant Paris.
How exactly do projectile bullets kill Hirogen? In the last episode
with these aliens, a Hunter boasted that he walked on the "neutronium
casing of a star", or something, and his armor protected him. Would a lead
bullet REALLY be able to punch through something that strong? And yet all
through the episode they do.
When the crew fight back against the Hirogen and take back the ship,
we see that there are FOUR Hirogen vessels off Voyager's bow. Why are they
fighting hand-to-hand against their prey when they can now just blast them
out of the stars? After they do that, they could have their pick of
trophies since body parts and stuff would be floating all over the nearby
area of space. (Of course, then, that would be the end of the show.)
Lastly, Janeway proves, once again, her indecisiveness. Sometimes she
decides to obey the Prime Directive and keep Federation technology out of
alien hands, and sometimes she'll do whatever she pleases. Is it SMART to
give holo tech to the Hirogen? (I'm picturing, in a near-future episode,
giant holographic Hirogen vessels attacking, crewed with thousands of
holographic Hirogen Hunters. "You are our Prey.")
Scott McClenney: I thought that The Killing Game was one of the
better episodes this season. The only problem was the opening was too confusing. Loved 7's
singing. I saw Jeri when she was on Regis and Kathie Lee and that is about how she has her
hair in real life. Actually there were Japanese American troops in Europe during WWII. 7's
comment about the Borg assimilating the Hirogen sooner or later was cool!:) Also loved the
Nazi lieutenants tirade.But would the Hirogen really be inspired by someone he knew to be a
hologram? Nice dress on 7 btw. One of these days Janeway is going to have to trust 7.It only
took her two episodes to learn to trust B'lanna. As holodoc would say:Talley Hoo! (When ARE
they goning to give him a name?)
Roland Spickermann: You can [imagine] some writer [had] the image of German soldiers and Klingons
fighting each other, and then reverse-engineering the episode to make
that scene possible. Where is the only place they could possible meet
(aside from time travel)? The holodeck of course! Why would they be
meeting there? I've got it! Somebody's testing them against each
other! At this point, the light goes on about the Hirogens.
And now a nit: The picture of FDR in Chakotay's tent is partially draped in black,
which would be appropriate if FDR were dead. But the action is taking
place in 1944, and FDR died in 1945.
These are other comments, not really intended for the site.
I would have to disagree with your complaint about the "dilution" of the
villains in Star Trek series. I would argue that their dilution, making
them less than totally evil, helps to make them three-dimensional and
more believable.
It would be hard, for example, to create the rich cultures for Romulans
and Klingons -- and Jem Hadar, for that matter -- if they simply cackled
fiendishly all day.
The other side of that is the "dilution" of the Federation, showing its
representatives as not always totally good, and occasionally failing at
moral problems thrust at them.
Without this dilution, I think, Star Trek would have died as a
phenomenon long ago.
End of pompous comments. :-)
Note from Phil: Except . . . Classic Trek *never* diluted their enemies! And it
survived just fine, thank you very much! ;-) The closest you come to
dilution is Dove of the Day where the Klingon commander says, "Only a
fool fights in a burning house." That's not really dilution. That's
an honorable way to stop fighting and still serve the greater
purpose.
In the movies, you do have Star Trek VI where the Klingons come
forward with hat in hand but that's a situation where it was forced
upon them and the real guy who would have turned the Klingon empire
around was murdered by a coalition of Klingons and Starfleet
officers!
This seems more realistic to me because culture is a fairly
intractable thing and take decades or even centuries to change. And
sometimes, it *never* changes! Bosnia anyone?
It's one thing to do character developement. It's another to require
changes in characterization to make a plot wrong that fly in the face
of the character map!
I don't mind including your comments in the file! Really! I have
not problem with people disagreeing with me.
Roland Spickermann: Thank you for your response!
Thank you, too, for your last remark, which welcomes public disagreement.
I had suggested that they did not need to be put in the public file
mainly because they were more general remarks, and not actual nits. If
you think that putting them in the file would generate some good
discussion, please do so!
Will you indulge a reply to your reply?
I don't know if many of these changes "fly in the face of the character
map" as they show us aspects of the character which we have not seen
before. There can be intelligent Hirogens just as there can be dissident
Cardassians, and for that matter unbelligerent Russians and non-Nazi
Germans.
Anyway, your point is well taken: "classic Trek" survived its
two-dimensional adversaries. However, I would still argue -- and this is
obviously a matter of personal preference coming from my own experience
-- that the new series (TNG, DS9 and VOY) all surpass classic Trek
because their adversaries have this ambiguity and depth.
(I'd also like to give you some background, which might explain my
perspective.) I teach German history at the University of Detroit Mercy,
and have to confess the last VOY episode made me groan. I spend months
working on students to get a picture of German history and culture that
goes beyond 1933-1945, only to see these B-movie stereotypes in Voyager.
Even down to the stereotyped barked commands! It reminded me of that one
TOS series where our heroes go underground against a society wearing Nazi
uniforms introduced by some Federation anthropologist. Another case of
reverse-engineering, I bet: "Lessee, we have all these old surplus Nazi
uniforms in wardrobe. How can we save some money by fitting them into an
episode?" I was instantly predisposed against both episodes. In
retrospect, I should be more impressed that the Voyager writers came up
with a much more imaginative premise.)
Keep up the good work!
Response from Phil: I understand ambiguity and depth! It's just that Trek is getting very, very predictable
in the "redemption" of it's enemies. Here comes the bad guy. Oh wait: Here comes the
good-bad guy now. Oh. . . now he's our friend! ;-)
We had what? Four episodes with
the Hirogen before we just happened to run across a different kind of
Hirogen and we had to make them our friends?
Personally, I'm of the opinion that there is real evil in the world. Evil that is evil for
evil's sake. Evil that does not care to be redeemed. Evil that makes
no appeal to the situation to justify it's ethic. It's just evil. And
I think it has a role in good story-telling and I think you can craft
interesting, three-dimensional characters who don't stand around and
twirl their mustaches but are none the less completely disinterested
in any association with good!
Matt Nelson: Well, this episode was kinda of... dumb. I wasn't expecting much of
anything, though, so I wasn't too disappointed. I mean, really, how
many times can you do the holodeck thing??? The whole episode
reminded me of fights I used to have with my toys as a kid, when you
reached in and pitted Spider-Man, Batman, G.I.Joes, and your Star
Trek toys against the evil Frankenstein and the Wolfman... I kept
waiting for Godzilla to show up or something.
Phil, you are so dead on about the "watering-down" of the Trek
villains. The only ones they haven't managed to screw up completely
are the Borg and the Dominion, and they even have messed with the
Borg by bringing in Seven. (I'm not fond of her character. She's
like a walking deus ex machina. Got a problem? Hey, Seven's
probably carrying around a Borg implant in her armpit that'll take
care of it!) At any rate, I was annoyed by the whiny Hirogen guy.
And I was REALLY annoyed when the rest of the Hirogen just calmly
walked off at the end to leave Voyager in peace. I would have been
more satisfied if the new leader had looked at Janeway's offer, said
"No," and shot her in the face. That would have rung more true to
me.
This episode did NOT need to be two hours long. The first half
draaaaaaged along, and then the second half wrappeditupreallyfast! I
didn't hate it all though.
I really liked Neelix's inability to pronounce the Klingon names.
"The house of g..pf.. something." Cracked me UP!
Ok, a nit or two...
Boy, Janeway's French accent is worse than Picard's.
What happened to those really cool face-masks the Hirogen used to
wear? Does Voyager have that pine-fresh scent they love so well?
My little sister also thought FDR looked like Truman.
Why does Janeway reach for the Hirogen's neck? Apparently there's no
important veins there; Tuvok couldn't kill them by slitting their
throats.
The rebellious Hirogen guy looked WAY DARKER in color from the first half
of the episode to the second.
The Hirogen must fluctuate in height. Some seem about two feet
taller than the humans/etc on Voyager, then there's that guy who was
barely taller than Janeway. (Note from Phil: He was the runt of the litter. Tough to find titan actors!)
What happened to the cool warpaint the Hirogen used to use? Toss it
in times of urgency?
So, are the crew of Voyager going to do the smart thing and keep the
holoemitters all over the ship, just in case Holodoc's portable one
breaks? Betcha they woooon't....
Anyway, it wasn't the worst episode of Voyager I've ever seen... Just
mindlessly entertaining, and that isn't cutting it for me anymore.
Will Phillips: It appears that Torres has 'Scully German Mispronounciation Syndrome'.
In the first part, when she approaches Nazi HQ, a guard asks her,
'Fraulein, was ist los?' (Miss, what's wrong?). She replies, 'Ich muss
mit Ihrem Hauptmann sprechen!' (I have to speak with your captain!).
Well, I know German, and I know that her pronounciation is off. She
pronounced 'Ich' like 'Ish', but it's pronounced 'Ikhhhhhhhhh', like
Bach. Not 'Bok', the other way! Same thing with 'sprechen', it became
spreshen. Same 'ch' deal.
Anyway, Scully does this same thing in one episode of the X-Files. It
kinda stands out for someone who's been studying German for 4 years.
Understandable, I guess, since they are actors and not language
scholars. Still. :-)
Matthew McLauchlin: Further to Anthony's point - I saw 7's character's name as Mlle *de*
Neuf... which, even better, literally means Miss Of-Nine. :)
Steve Braun: Some of these might have been already said, it's the first time I actually
wrote all of the nits down. Great quotes: "...you should use it some time"
--Tuvok.
Now to the nits:
In the beginning there are Hirogen ships escorting Voyager, and later they
talk about propulsion, but where are they going? Can't they use the WWII
simulation in holodeck 3. Doesn't Seven realize her borg implants. If i woke
up in World War II with an ocular implant and assimilation tubules, I would
know. Who disabled the mortality fail-safe on the holodeck so the Hirogen can
have more fun. A Hirogen can get killed by a rifle? All the crew seem a lot
like their real selves. Tuvok talks like Tuvok. Seven acts and talks like
seven. and Janeway is just as annoying as usual. How can the Hirogen fit in
Nazi uniforms? Can't they set Janeway so that she ignores them talking 2374
engineering. A munitions expert and a singer, how likely. Neelix says one of
the nazi places is surrounded by guards, isn't that kind of obvious? The crew
and Hirogen can read German? The Hirogen act rather odd now, attack, help,
repeat. This episode seems quite a bit like "Basics." The Doctor says a crew
member was killed by the guns. I know bullets can kill instantly but can't
Holodoc still bring them back to life? In one of the bridge scenes it shows a
Hirogen at Aux Tactical (behind the captain's chair) which is usually
unattended and all it seems to have buttons for are firing weapons, which he
wasn't doing (playing Captain's Chair too much, great game though). There are
several Holodecks, which can probably hold all the crew, why do the Hiro's
need more emitters. If they wanted a big holograhpic playground how about they
knock out all the walls? Why haven't the Hirogen heard of the borg? What
happened to our bleak little 8472 friend from last week? When the doctor uses
a hypospray it doesn't make any noise. Why not program a button to deactivate
all the Hiro's implants in the first place. Harry is constantly bleeding, the
Hiro's may mistreat him, but they should heal a little bit in some places. The
Hirogen comb Chakotay's hair (apparently). Since when has there been a bio-lab
on Voyager, I haven't seen one, there was one on the Enterprise D, but I
haven't seen one on Voyager. The Holographic overloads in the end of part one
should not rock the ship. Why not make a countdown until the overload for 1
second, instead of 8 mins. It isn't very smart to fill the ship with holo-
emitters, without extra emitters James Moriarty controlled the Enterprise!
When in the caves with the eccentric people Janeway and the Doctor need to
get to some control panel (or was it some other scene), but why can't they re-
route it? When Seven tries to throw a anti-holographic grenade it deactivates
some holograms, but it just hits the ground mainly, why wouldn't the cement
and hay on the ground disappear? Why doesn't the doctor have a cure for
Klingon hangovers? The Hiro's aren't scattered across the quadrant, maybe the
sector, but not the quadrant! Janeway feels for a Hirogen's pulse in his NECK
after he got the bullet in the stomach that I already mentioned. In Sevens
anti-holographic grenade that I already mentioned, it releases a "photonic
burst," two weeks in a row! Kovin used a photonic burst in Retrospect, which
of course would be a photon torpedo blast, or a flash of light, how lethal! In
Hunters Tuvok says they didn't seem to have morals, but now they make a nice
happy ending, Fascinating.
David D. Porter: I am Marlene Deitrich of Borg. Warmth is irrelevant.
If that's really Jeri Ryan singing (the range is right), she has a
very pleasant contralto.
Memo to Hollywood--not all German soldiers were SS. In fact, the vast
majority of garrison troops, and most combat troops, were Regular Army.
I realize this is a holonovel, but no single city in France was
critical to the Allied advance into Germany. Eisenhower's broad front
strategy was specifically designed to allow multiple options (among other
advantages--and disadvantages).
The message from Allied High Command said the US 4th Infantry would
attack St. Clair, but Captain Chakotay introduced himself as being from the
5th Armored Infantry. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what divisional patch he
and Tom (Bobby) are wearing, but I'm sure some other Guild member knows.
Interesting user interface on the sickbay console--four buttons?
Virtual pregnancy? Imagine the possibilities. For instance, women
telling their husbands, 'you should see how this feels!'
By the way, the Hirojin who tells the Nazi to put away his Luger is
wearing the insignia of a Second Lieutenant (equivalent). The Nazi is a
First Lieutenant (equivalent). He thus has no reason to obey.
Are any V-ger crew besides our stars on the holodecks?
I nominate 'Logic is irrelevant,' for Great Line of the Year.
Officers who did not 'embrace the Feuhrer' did *not* belong to the SS.
Chakotay is a Captain. That means he commands, at most, a battalion.
Even that assumes casualties to the unit leadership. He therefore doesn't
have authority to order a general cease-fire and withdrawal.
Why in the world will it take nine minutes to generate the emitter
overload?
Once again V-ger's thoroughly trashed, but will be good as new next
episode.
Joe Buss: Not that I really should have expected anything else from a script written by
Joe Menosky and Brannon "Fans are Idiots" Braga. But the Killing Game is a
prime example of how Voyager diminishes Star Trek, and how little regard the
creative team has for the fan who has stood by this franchise for 30 years.
--Life is A Cabaret, My Friend.
The whole premise of WWII as a gag for a story is insulting to the many
people who served and died in that conflict. To turn it into a mindless WWF
brawl with the Holo-Klingons demeans their memories. To turn the Nazis into
Cartoon villians detracts from the evil they represent.
Yes, TOS did do "Patterns of Force", but that was an intellegent discussion
of the corrupting nature of power. The DS9 relationship between the Bajorans
and Cardassians is a Nazi metaphor, but it is done with a good deal of dignity
and class. Ditto with the relationship between the Narn and Centauri on B5.
But the Killing game was schtick, like Hogan's Heroes. ("Klink, you are a
terrible writer" "Ja Wohl, Herr General Berman, I know I am a terrible
writer.")
--Paper Mache Bulkheads and other Holo-weirdness.
Let's see now, Holodeck WWII munitions can blow out duranium deck plates.
(you know, the ones that are supposed to survive hits by high energy weapons.)
The Hirogen don't have Holodeck technology, but they do have these neat nueral
interfaces that translate alien computer character files into brain emgrams of
several Voyager races they never encountered before. THe Holodeck can project
a Holo-Fetus into Torres body. (Does that come along with Holo-Morning
sickness?) The damaged and always energy strapped Voyager can run the
Holodecks for three weeks. (The scene where Harry states that the Holodeck is
draining power from all other systems should finally deflate the "Holodecks
have a seperate power source excuse.", but I will spare everyone another
Replicator debate.)
And of course, there is no kill switch for the Holodecks.
But the strangest thing of all - This is the ninth use of the Mad Hologram
plot line in Voyager, and the 16th in Trek total. Are TPTB really, truly this
bankrupt in the realm of ideas.
--The Jeffrey Dahmner Aliens.
The Hirogen are another typical Voyager Alien race, that odd combination of
mean and stupid.
First, they are obviously a thinly vieled slap at hunters. Along with
Scientific Method, one has to wonder if PETA has taken over the script
writing. Animals are the equivlent of humans. This doesn't elevate animal
life; it demeans human life, the last thing we need in a time of Jack
Kevorkian and 1 million Abortions every year.
Second, they are just plain dumb. Oh, what a great plan. We'll stop wasting
our time hunting and start wasting our time on Holodecks. Yeah, that's a
solution. And of course ,they have Voyager at their mercy, again, and let
everyone live, again.
Well, at least they didn't lose any shuttles this episode.
George Padovan of Bridgewater, NJ: WOW! What a *great* two-part episode! Instead of leaving viewers waiting one week when their interest might died down, they showed both
parts back-to-back! Just splendid! If they do this with all two-part
episodes (minus season finale cliffhangers), the stations would get
better ratings! (grin)
The story was griping, wonderful, and just a thrill to watch as Janeway
and company acted out the characters the neural transceivers made them
think they are! The Hirogens were portrayed as great villains, but the
Hirogen Leader made me feel sympathetic for them near the end.
Overall, this episode is a classic on *my* list! (grin)
Of course, there *are* nits! Every episode has them!
Holoemitters throughout the ship?! I thought according to Torres in the
1st or 2nd Season that it would be *difficult* to install them throughout
the ship! It was difficult enough to install them in Engineering in
that episode where The Doctor, when transferred to Engineering, was
shrunk down to the size of a toy action-figure.
Not a nit, just an observation: Now that they have emitters everywhere,
I wondered whether The Doctor no longer needed his mobile emitter.
Would they disable the emitters, so he can continue to use the mobile
emitter or allow the emitters to stay so he doesn't have to risk the
mobile one.
Uh? The Hirogen doctor threatened him with a gun? Being a hologram, The
Doctor can't be harmed with a gun. The phaser or bullet would go
through him. Plus the Hirogen wouldn't been able to grab him as he push
the Doc away from the neural transceiver control. Is the Doctor a
hologram or did he suddenly became human?
Looking at the fading hologrid after the explosion, one can clearly see
the observation that the holodeck is three decks tall! For the passed
three seasons, we knew they were only one deck tall. Now they
established Holodeck 1 takes up a *huge* amount of space? Three decks
worth? Sorry, this is a *waste* of space, if you ask me. (Note from Phil: I believe Kim mentions cutting through the decks so presumably he is responsible for the increased space!)
Nits for part 2!
Did they place holoemitters in the jefferies tubes as well? I don't
think Kim had the time if order to put them in the corridors and rooms,
thus Chakotay's gun and Janeway's pack of TNT would have fade away once
they entered the tube. (Note from Phil: Yup, yup, yup, yup!)
Before the Hirogen Doctor deactivated The Doctor, there were several
injured Voyager crewmembers in Sickbay. The Hirogen Doctor stated to
let the crewmembers lye at they were. Yet when Janeway and Chakotay
came in later, noticed the injured crewmembers are gone! If the Hirogen
Doc stated to let them lye where they were, where did those injured
crewmembers gone off to? They can't walk up by themselves, so...
Is it me or did The Doctor appeared to be the same height as Janeway
when she first activated him next to her on Holodeck 2 (Klingon
simulation)? From more than 3 years of observation, I know he's taller
than she is.
Okay, I understand that TPTB doesn't want Voyager to show blood, but
Janeway after being shot in the leg at a major area should had been
bleeding all over the floor. They never did show this later as she ran
from the Hirogen Second down the corridor. It would have made an easier
trail for him to follow.
I noticed that the dead American soldier that Janeway came across had
his rifle next to him. However, after the Hirogen Second's gun fade
away and Janeway slugged him, noticed the gun had *moved* right next to
Janeway in the middle of the area where holograms can't exist! In other
words, the Hirogen wasn't knock down passed the soldier, plus the gun
couldn't exist inside the area where the holoemitters are destroyed.
Gee, could Q popped a *real* gun for Kathy at that moment? (grin)
Now that sweeps month had passed, that preview for a repeat episode
sure wouldn't get me to watch it again. I think "The Killing Game" had
*killed* the preview producers' sense of *sense*. (grin)
Nick Angeloni: Did anyone find it odd that Seven seemed to have a skin tight
outfit when Janeway and Tuvok had two piece loose items? I know since we
didn't see her in a catsuit the whole episode they had to make her wear
that suit, but it's mighty convienient isn't it? ("Sorry Miss LeNeuf. We
could only find three suits, and the only one in your size is this
jumpsuit.")
Also liked Seven's comment about the Borg assimilating the Hirogen- my
mother was waiting for that to happen!
Matthew Patterson: I thought this was an OK episode. Not as good as "Scorpion" or "Year of
Hell" but OK. Just the plot mostly. I mean come on. How many times has
this happened. Some AOTW takes over the ship/tortures the crew from the
Holodeck. Whatever shall we do? Anyway, on to the nits...
Just after the Alpha-Hiro declares a cease-fire, Paris and B'Elanna are
walking down a French street in the middle of the afternoon. Then all of
the sudden, the other Hirogen mutiny and the forces are fighting at
night! What's going on here? (I know, it looks more dramatic at night,
what with all the pretty explosions rising from the city. BTW, some
great FX of the giant hole in the side of the holodeck and the Hiro
falling to his doom.)
What do you want to bet that Sickbay will be just fine and dandy in the
next new episode? And when is that going to be? Most of the preview was
from "Random Thoughts," and the Borg's-eye view of the security team
either came from FC or "The Raven" (I think.) Also, the shimmering blue
sphere effect after the Borg's-eye view was the time-traveling sphere
from FC.
Lisa Solinas: This was awful. Period.
Sending NEELIX into a Klingon sim? What is it with the Hirogen? (Note from Phil: Perhaps they have tasted his cooking.)
I have just about had it with Janeway. Example: In "Random Thoughts" [rerun next
week] she refuses to beam B'Elanna up because it might offend the people on the
planet. Here, the Hirogen guy makes weepy eyes at her and she's willing to break the
Prime Directive because he's unhappy. I don't mind breaking the PD if lives are
immediately at stake, but if someone is simply unhappy....
And does everyone remember my gripes about how the Hirogen had better be as good
as the Dominion? Well, I am going to scream. Unlike this Hirogen captain, the
Jem'Hadar may respect you, but if ordered to, they WILL gut you.
And what's this about enjoying the killing on the holodeck? Sim-bloodsport is
undoubtedly not as good as the real thing.
When that Nazi guy began to rave against Christians and Jews, I decided that I would
thoroughly enjoy the sight of him being made into German on a stick.
The holo-Klingons were shown with Neelix as being two bloodwine-soaked soaks.
Where did the dozens at the end come from?
Janeway sure can run fast with a bullet in her thigh.
I wonder.... where exactly was this holo-baby? Torres's abdomen couldn't hold up to
the strain of being so rapidly expanded [could Deanna Troi's?]. They gave the
impression that it wasn't just a giant kicking lump on her stomach.
I'm sorry, but in that scene in the street with Neelix and Seven, with those ankle
socks, black shoes, and flowered dress, Seven looked like a period ten-year-old with
hips and big "borgs." (Note from Phil: Ahem. ;-)
Alright, it had good special effects, especially that thing with the blown out walls on all
those decks. But wouldn't Miller/Chakotay and Davis/Paris be more than a little astonished
at the technology on the walls? Or maybe filch a few phasers to fight the Hirogen and the
Nazis?
Harry is given a redshirt assistant. I thought everyone was on the holodeck.
At the end, I kept expecting Holodoc to yell, "Today is a good day to die!"
I thought the bat'leths were really heavy. Janeway heaves it around like she's used to it.
I know they're period pieces, but those American helmets make Chuckles's head look
like a giant beetle.
Seven knows nothing about WW2. She also knows no songs. I thought the knowledge
of the assimilated was made general with the Borg. No one from Wolf 359 knew
anything about WW2 or singing?
I have griped about this before and I shall gripe again. Why feel at the neck of
someone whose physiology is so different?
Joshua Truax: What is it with Star Trek lately, anyway? Just three weeks ago the
entire DS9 ensemble went out of character for the episode "Far Beyond
the Stars". Now it's Voyager's turn, as everyone except Kim and Doc
Hologram are pitted against the Hirogen's Nazis. The premise was
questionable (see below), and the resolution to the whole story seemed
like just an afterthought following such a wonderful climax, but all in
all it was a fun episode... even if it can be nitpicked to death.
PART I: Inside joke: According to this week's TV Guide, the first song
7/9 sings in this episode is "Would It Be Wrong?" which appears in a
1942 movie called "Now, Voyager"...
Speaking of 7/9 singing... I can accept supposedly French, German and
even Hirogen characters speaking English, but why would a cabaret in
Nazi-occupied France employ a singer that performs only American music?
(See the movie "Swing Kids" if you don't get my drift...)
Once again the crew have apparently put up a pitiful resistance against
an invading force. (See "Deadlock", "Basics", etc.) Also, Janeway
obviously never bothered to autodestruct the ship -- unless the
secondary command processors are still damaged from "Basics"...
The dialogue indicates that the Hirogen are not that familiar with
holodeck technology, yet they are somehow able to link neural
transceivers to the holodeck computers in order to make the crew believe
they are characters in the program. Does this seem right?
At one point one of the Hirogen manhandles a holo-Nazi during an
argument. Doesn't it seem absolutely pointless to get into any kind of
argument, physical or otherwise, with a holodeck character?
Considering that Torres is half-Klingon, you'd think the Hirogen would
have kept her in the Klingon simulation the entire time. She never sets
foot in that program once...
PART II: In Janeway's only log entry she calls the damage to Voyager "extreme."
Isn't that a little melodramatic? So one of the holodeck walls has a
big hole in it, a few corridors are damaged, and sickbay is out of
commission for awhile. Considerable damage, to be sure, but hardly
"extreme." The kind of damage we saw in "Year of Hell"; now, *that* was
extreme!
Last, but certainly not least, Janeway commits perhaps her most blatant
Prime Directive violation yet by giving holographic technology to the
Hirogen. That's two violations -- three, if you count causing Kovin's
death in "Retrospect" -- since Voyager made contact with Starfleet! Did
Starfleet tell Janeway they would make an exception to the Prime
Directive in Voyager's case?
Dustin Westfall: I haven't seen it yet, but I just thought I'd share an anti-nit. Don
Ferguson says that Oriental people didn't participate in WWII, due to
prejudice. While there was alot of prejudice against the Japanese, it
was mostly centered on the West Coast, where the internment camps were.
Not only that, there were Japanese (or more accurately, American
children of Japanese immigrants) that served in WWII, including the most
decorated unit in US military history, an all-Asian-American unit, that
fought in Italy. (Amazing what you can actually learn from that history
class you slept through. :-)
J. Andrew Keith: I'm with you, Chief . . . this one was
pretty silly.
I won't mention any of the nits others have brought up, expect for
briefly wondering why people noticed the slipshod French accents without
wondering about a deeper consideration -- the Resistance people should
be speaking French, shouldn't they? Or at least think they are. So why
speak with the silly accents at all?
For the gentleman who questioned Harry as a Japanese-American soldier,
there was in fact a much-decorated Nisei unit that fought in the
Europeran Theater of Operations in WWII (mostly in Italy, I'll admit).
Otherwise I agree with his opinion of the whole exchange. (I kept
expecting Harry to claim he was with the OSS, myself.)
I'd like to throw out one nit I haven't seen yet.
Wolf 359?
The Hirogen are going to do a holodeck simulation of Wolf 359?
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the battle of Wolf 359 pretty
much a case of large Borg cube plowing through Starfleet ships and
blowing everything up in its path? Our noble hunters enacting this
scenario would be rather along the lines of a bunch of Terrans hunting
rabbits with tactical nukes.
Well, why not? Maybe later on they could stqage a recreation of the
bombing of Hiroshima and see how many trophies they can collect
afterward.
S. Dickson: In one TNG episode, where Worf's brother brings a group of people from
one planet onto the Enterprise's holodeck to go to another planet, the
holodeck started failing, and the people (who were under the impression
that they had never left their home planet), were scared by the yellow
lines and black spaces between that were appearing in the sky. In "The
Killing Game", if the holodeck was damaged, it should have been showing
the holo-diodes and holo-emitters for at least a few feet around the
hole. I know the Voyager holodeck uses clear emitters, as shown in a few
episodes, instead of the grid pattern on the Enterprise.
The scene of the holodeck gaping open WAS a good scene to see. However,
holodecks, when referred to, are located on ONE deck. Harry did tell the
Hirogen that he had expanded the holodeck, but why expand it vertically?
The only use a vertical expansion would do is for tall buildings, and
the holodeck can take care of even that in a one-deck holodeck. The
Hirogen were just wasting holodeck energy that way.
Speaking of energy: In a first season episode, Harry reported trying to
wire holodeck energy into main energy and failing. I believe he said it
fried the whole grid he was transferring it onto, and that the two
reactors were incompatible. However, in this episode, he reported to the
Hirogen that he had diverted energy from all non-essential systems to
the holodecks to maintain energy. If the two types of energy are
non-compatible, how was this done?
Also, if all non-essential systems were being pulled into the holodecks,
why add an additional strain by installing holo-emitters in the halls of
Voyager?
According to the Hirogen, a simulated explosion of the Nazi building
blew open a hole in the side of the holodeck. Wouldn't other explosions,
such as grenades, cause similar problems in other walls, and the floor?
Why didn't we see any gaping holes in the floor when explosives were
used? Also, we saw: machine guns, grenades, Hirogen pulse rifles, and
pistols. The grenades and pulse rifles should have caused at least a
small amount of damage to the walls and floor.
So, now Voyager has their halls wired for holo-projection, like they
tried in a previous season (the doctor tries a vacation, and the
holodeck malfunctions, making him choose between holo-Kes and Chakotay).
Well, holo-doc no longer has to wear the emitter inside the ship (well,
he might in some places.) So, will we see other holo-characters roaming
the halls of Voyager in future episodes, or will this development go the
way of Tom's Warp 10 flight and Seven's trans-warp conduits? (both of
which were never spoken of again). Now, Voyager could have the whole
crew of any ship they want along their side to help them! (Personally, aside from the energy considerations, I think it would be fun to see a group of faceless, manikin-like holo-drones running around on Voyager!)
However, not all of Voyager was wired for holo-emitters. I don't believe
the Jeffries tubes were. Yet, Janeway crawled through with her pistol.
Chakotay crawled through with his back-pack, rifle, and bomb. Wouldn't
those disappear the moment they left the holo-emitter area? Chakotay and
Janeway entered the Klingon holodeck via Jeffries tubes also, which
leads us to assume the holo-Klingon's used the same way to get to the
Nazi simulation. Wouldn't they disappear also? Plus, this brings up a
very serious (but also humorous) question: The real characters changed
clothing a few times on the holodeck. Was that clothing real, or just a
holo-projection? This would cause one serious problem if it was
holo-clothing!
It would have been smart of the Hirogen not to put holo-emitters in the
main necessary parts of the ship (ie Bridge, transporter room, Main
engineering), yet, one of the Hirogen used a rifle on another in Main
engineering. How was this possible?
On the radio broadcast Janeway and the resistance listened to, the
reporter said a few temperatures. I don't remember if one of then was
47, but it would have been a nice place to put it. However, this brings
up a question those in Europe might answer for me: In World War 2, and
even now, do you refer to your temperatures in celsius (centigrade), or
Farenheit? The temperatures the man said on the radio were in the 40's
and 50's, leading me to think this was in Farenheit. If he meant in
Centigrade, they'd be in a LITTLE trouble!!! (50 Centigrade = 122
Farenheit ... a little warm for England OR France at ANY time!!!)
A note for the books: Voyager has only 2 holodecks.
Janeway: Next, we'll be entering some caves. The inhabitants are a
little eccentric. How did Janeway know that the Klingon simulation was
what was going on in the other holodeck at the time?
The Hirogen were planing on Wolf 359 next. This would have been an
excellent wasy to crossover some of the TNG characters, and maybe even
Ben Sisko, onto Voyager. However, it would have killed some of the crew.
Being crushed and exposed to vacuum for extended periods of time is
something even the doctor can't help take care of. And, what would
happen to the crew that were assimilated? Would the computer actually
replicate some nanoprobes from the doctor's research for assimilation?
What if Seven was assimilated (again)?
Jonathan Klein: When Janeway and Seven were in the Nazi building, it
came under artillary fire. It absolutely disintegrated in a wall of
flame. No artillery shell in the world would have this effect,
especially from World War Two.
I know a bit about firearms, and Kudos to the creators for getting the
guns correct to the period. I didn't see close ups of everything, but
the Germans had P-38 Walther pistols, 8mm Mausers, and the U.S. troops
had .30 cal M1 Garands-- all correct!
Nina Culver: Okay....Watching this episode, one thing jumped out at me. Isn't it a really
bad thing to run around firing guns on a starship?!? Hull breach, anyone? One
other item of note, I saw a story on Seven on Entertainment Tonight (or one
of those shows) that had an interview with Jeri Ryan. She said that she
really is singing in this episode.
Tom Elmore: This may be history, the first nit ever given based on your synopsis of an
episode. (Since I don't get UPN I rely on the brash reflections to keep up with ST:V)
What is this with Janeway giving holodeck equipment to someone that just took
over your ship and may have killed the crew? Come on, that's rediculus. it is
also out of character as Janeway has been rather stingy when it comes to
sharing her equipment in the delta quadrent.
And what about the prime directive? Is this a violation? I think so. One of
the faults of Voyager has been that the Prime Directive is seemingly violated
at Janeways whim, as if she is a godess. (Or to be more exact;whenever a
writer thinks it helps the story. I know that it was/is often broken on the
other 3 treks, but not to the degree as it is on Voyager) Just think, the
holodeck instead of uniting this world could even tear further apart and be
used to conquor other planets as well. Would you want that blood on your
hands? I think not.
It is episodes like this and "cheater" endings that has made Voyager a
difficult show for me to watch even when I was getting UPN. There seems to be
a constant lack of consistintcy, which I think is one reason the show has
never caught on. While I do admit to missing watching new episodes, sometimes
I wonder if I have really missed anything.
A. Mehrten: Just a note to Don Ferguson's comment on Asian Allied soldiers:
The 442nd was made up of Japanese-American soldiers - posted to Italy,
won many citations, and rather well-known, though I guess not enough.
Rep. Dan Inouye (D-HI) was one of them, and lost his arm in the
fighting.
Aside from all that I don't think Harry is supposed to be of Japanese
descent anyway, but my memory may be wrong there.
Brian: All the good ones have been overpicked, but I found one that everyone
else seemed to miss. All external shots of Voyager show it to be in
pretty good condition, while the inside looks [awful].
James Rioux: I was just reading the comments and I find that a lot of people are
complaining about the fact that Janeway wouldn't give tech to the
Kazon but gives it to the Hirogen. They say that this is a strong
change in her behavior and demonstrates that she no longer
beleives in the Prme Directive.
The way I see it, replicator technology is much more dangerous than
holodeck technology. Replicators, properly configured, can likely
produce _weapons_. That's why Janeway wasn't eager to give the
Kazon any replicator tech. Kazon and unlimited weapons - bad combo.
Holodeck technology can only create holographic weapons. As in, no
substance. Big threat there. As long as the Voyager crew stays out
of those holodecks, they're in no danger and neither is anyone else.
So although she is technically violating the Prime Directive, she has
a good reason (and that was all Picard needed, so there!)
On a completely different note, I wonder if the Hirogen leader was
really stupid enough to think about trying a Wolf 359 simulation.
One Borg cube completely destroyed an entire armada of the best
Federation starships, and this guy honestly wants to put his people
on those ships and try to fight the Borg? Wow. It's a good thing
his lackey iced him before he got everyone killed. (Note from Phil: Not sure if this is what the commander had in mind but these Hirogen did do after a member of species 8742!)
Jim Coyle: I hate to say it, but the Star Trek machine is running out of steam.
This sure didn't need to be a two-parter. But Neelix as a klingon worked in a bizarre sort of way, didn't it?!
Scott Newton: I enjoyed this one, in spite of the nits and other problems you
mentioned in your Brash Reflection. I'd had a rough week, and I was in
the mood for an action episode. It was good to see Harry Kim (after
having had his character neglected all season) stand up to the Hirogen
and have a hand in saving the ship. (Granted, TPTB never explained why
he let the Hirogen get as far as they did, but ... )
Great lines: Harry: "Go to ****!"; Doctor: "I'll re-attach any severed
limbs. Just don't misplace them."
First, an anti-nit (maybe): The Tech Manual says that the Holodeck
combines replication and holographic projection. So when 7's grenade
disrupts the holograms, and when the simulation ends, only the
holographic matter disappears, but the replicated matter remains.
Good point about the six-inch high letters, Phil, but the creators
wanted us to see the words. (I know, I know. They could have shown us an
extreme close-up.)
The Borg and the Hirogen are two ancient, powerful races from the Delta
Quadrant. So why haven't they met yet? The Hirogen Captain acts like he
never heard of the Borg until he finds them in the database.
7's comment that it is inevitable that the Borg will assimmilate the
Hirogen is quite distrubing. Does she still believe that the Borg will
assimmialte everyone? Including humans? Kind of makes you wonder where
her loyalties will lay if the Borg attack Voyager again.
In "Future's End," Helm Boy is saying "Groovy" in 1996, and he can't
even remember that the Cold War had ended by then. Now, he's an expert
on Nazi uniforms, and his slang is perfect for the era. He either knows
a lot more about the first half of the 20th century than the second
half, or he's spent a lot of time reviewing the historical database!
So once again, Seven's Borg technology is activated so she can take the
first step in saving the ship. Does this remind anyone else of
Scientific Method"?
At the end of one scene, the Klingons challenge Neelix to a fight, and
they even put a knife to his throat. The next time we see the Klingons,
they're still drunk and staggering around the campfire, and Neelix is
a-ok. Did I miss something? What happened to the fight?
JC Fernandez: Don't know if this was mentioned yet. But why do the Hirogen alter the
appearance of Janeway and Neelix to make them appear as Klingons in one
simulation, yet don't alter the appearance of Tuvok, Seven, Torres, and
Neelix to look human in the other simulation?
Peter Schieren: As many others have mentioned, the problems with holomatter and real matter
etc. are numerous in this episode.
One possible nit that I noticed is when the two French women are crossing
the street just before they spit on Torres, a car passes behind them which
might have been a car call a Deux Cheveaux. That car is still built or was
until recently. Was is built during WWII?
The comment was made about the Hirogen being bad shots, Tuvok's aim could
use improving too. He had a sub machine gun and couldn't hit a thing with
it.
When 7o9 and Janeway run into astrometrics there is what appears to be a
German soldier working on some panel and then he runs to his rifle and
get's ko'd by Janeway. Wouldn't all Germans in the program be
holocharacters? And if so, what could he have been doing in astrometrics?
Could he read English?
I did find it kind of amusing that 7o9 was in the French resistance, when
all Borg know that resistance is futile.
Mike Bucca: This episode was not bad with its storyline at all. It was pretty funny to see
the Voyager crew members running around in early-Twentieth-Cenutry France. And
Seven of Nine has a good voice (I dont know if that was really Jeri Ryans
voice). But the episode was a DISASTER...here are some of the few.
First off this episode is a huge example of ESP. Where are they gonna
get enough parts to replace five decks of damage??
And the takeover of Voyager seemed odd. I mean, it didn;t seem like they
really had control of the ship. The crewmembers seemed to be more mobile than
the Kazon let them to be. And they let the doctor be free. WHY? These
Hirosians should know that they are gonna be outsmarted if they let the crew
access so many systems.
And this episode was the BIGGEST pathetic excuse for Roxanne Dawson's baby...
[From someone identified only as MWilso8660]: okay...i'll admit that I didn't pay much attention to this latest adventure of voyager...i mean it was on the TV and I found other things in the room to keep
my attention! First reason: I'm sick of any episode that has any hint of time
travel! Its been done to death and the main reason is because it always has to
do with the Nazis! Not a bad ideam, but an over used one and not well done!
My beef goes deeper than that. I wondered about this with the kazon....follow
along please...IF you have technology to create warp capable starships and the
amazing feats of engineering that must entail...why can't you create a
replicator? (Kazon) After all, breakthroughs in science often lead to other
discoveries not even thought of... SO I ask...if the Hirogen can make
spacecraft capable of WARP speed and weaponry enough to defeat voyager, why
can't they make a holodeck? Am I to believe that they can base an entire
culture on "The hunt" in DEEP SPACE and lack any knowledge on this kind of
technology? I find it hard to swallow. Isn't that like thinking mankind can
discover the secret of television and not understanding the technology of
radio? Bad analogy, but i'd like to hear the viewpoints of the rest of the
guild on this!
Murray Leeder: Uh... er... not so great. Sometimes entertaining, but fairly worthless.
Why does Janeway carry a gun to the door? If it's one of her people,
she won't shoot them. If it's a Nazi, changes are she won't shoot them
either and blow their cover! Why not just put the picture back and play
dumb?
"Gung ho" won't exactly make sense to a WWII-era army captain, Janeway.
Ding ding, Janeway!
So how come the town doesn't disappear when the emitters are disabled?
A 9 minute countdown? That's just utterly STUPID! STUPID STUPID STUPID!
Do you really think it takes 9 mins to the second to make the
holo-emitters overload? I don't think so!
Kirk Johnson: Why is it that all of the crew retained their own personalities except Neelix?
I realize that he is a Klingon here, and that he must have a Klingon
personality, but for nits' sake, there is no valid reason.
How come Harry, who is an engineer, can't get a visual from Holodeck 1 on the
bridge (the bridge with all its controls) but the doctor, definitely not an
engineer, can get a visual from Holodeck 1 from a console that is only
supposed to be the controls for Holodeck 2?
At the end of the episode, Seven is about to throw a bomb when she is shot and
falls to the ground, later needing support from Nazi soldiers to stand. When
the holoemitters overload, she walks away as if she is perfectly fine. She,
with the holograms gone, the bullet won't be lodged in her body anywhere, but
she would still have the wound.
David D. Porter: Earlier I said I couldn't identify the divisional patch worn by the US
troops. It is the patch of the 29th Infantry Division, which consisted of
the 115th, 116th, and 175th Infantry Regiments. No 5th Armored Infantry
here. In fact, my research doesn't show any 5th Armored Infantry in the US
Order of Battle for the European Theater.
Don Ferguson said no persons of Oriental descent served in the US
armed forces as regular soldiers. This is incorrect. The 442nd Regimental
Combat Team and 100th Infantry Battalion were formed of Nisei
(Japanese-Americans), including current US Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI).
The 100th was the most decorated unit of its size, with 9 Distinguished
Service Crosses, 44 Silver Stars, 9 Legions of Merit, 31 Bronze Stars and
over *1,000* Purple Hearts. All this while their relatives were in
internment camps. It should be noted that, for 'security reasons,' neither
unit saw service in the Pacific.
Gary Holmes: Does Janeway in her French hostess outfit remind anyone else of comedienne
Paula Poundstone? It hit me the second time I watched the episode.
Would the French Resistance be armed with U.S.-issue .45 caliber handguns?
I'm not sure but I don't think so.
I agree the writers wimped out by making everyone basically the same character
but in different clothes. (Janeway the leader, Tuvok is her old friend, 7 o'
9 not trusted, etc.) Why not have the Federation personel be the Nazis and
make the simulation be sometime around the fall of the Third Reich? Or have
Janeway be a waitress in the bar, or even a Nazi sympathizer? Personally, I
thought Jeri Ryan should have been more extroverted as the singer. Laughing,
making passes at the customers, somethig a little more shocking. Ever before
her implant as removed, she seemed just like 7o' 9. Don't get me wrong, she
and the Doctor are still my favorites. The writers had a great chance to make
everyone change places and didn't take advantage of it fully. (Note from Phil: I completely agree!)
Did you see the TV Guide article last week about Jeri Ryan singing "Would It
Be Wrong?" from the 1942 movie "Now, Voyager"? She referred to it as "a
little inside joke no one will get."
Brian O'Marra: I have just now sat through two long and confusing hours watching this episode
and agree with you and my fellow nitpickers on how contrived the episode was.
The ending for me was kind of a let down!!
I also enjoyed perusing your reflections as well as those of nitcentral. I
think I can only add a couple of nits or observations.
First, I believe that Harry said the explosion in the holodeck spread across
three decks. Funny, it looks like I noticed four decks showing.
Finally, during the first two seasons the Voyager crew was trying to install
emitters in key locations of the ship for the doctor to have a freer run. They
failed. Then came the mobile emitter borrowed from 29th century Earth to the
rescue.
In a recent episode, "Message In A Bottle" we find that starfleet has
completed a prototpye ship Prometheus with holo emitters installed throughout.
That episode implied that Starfleet has come a long way since Voyager
disappeared.
Apparently not! My question is this: If Voyager had the emitters, and Kim had
the expertise to install them throughout the ship in only a few weeks, and do
it successfully, why didn't they a few seasons ago?
Until next week. Same Voyager time! Same Voyager channel! (Sorry! Couldn't
resist paying a little tribute to the Batman references you pointed out!)
Brian Henley: Aiee-yie-yie. I'm usually easy to please when it comes to Voyager
episodes. But thus one just seemed to drag on and on. Not good. Not something
the writers should want to put on their resumes.
I do have a few good ruminations. First of all. I think Jeri Ryan's singing
ability is surprisingly impressive. I guess the Borg were able to give her
singing lessons! Also Kudos to her wardrobe specialists and hairdressers.
Seven has always been anything but unattractive, but this time she really
glowed.
The weapons that the Germans carried were accurate, it looked like. The
machine guns were schmiesers (sic) and the standard rifles were bolt action
Mausers. Not to sure about the authenticity of the American guns.
And I have to break ranks with most nitpickers about holodecks-go-bad eps. I
like 'em! Just as long as they have a good story as to how they get
into the holodeck, I love it when the place goes crazy. (unfortunately, this
episode didn't).
There were a few good one-liners, and I liked Neelix's stretch as a Klingon
warrior. The references to Roxanne Dawson's pregnancy were, I thought,
hilarious.
Good lines:
"You should have seen the mess you were after the Crusades"
"Tallyho." Both by Hollo-doc.
But there were nits .... oh, yes, there were nits.
I'll bet this one has been hammered on by other guildsmembers, but how did the
Hirojen get on board so easily? Voyager changes hands more often then a dollar
bill! It has to be the most invaded and captured ship in the history of the
galaxy!! The Kazon, those aliens in "Displaced", the Borg (okay, that I can
understand) Species 8472, and now the Hirojen! Remides me of the Virginia city
of Winchester, which changed hands 72 times during the course of the Civil
War. Seems like every alien species gets to capture Voyager at some time!
The Hirogens, when dressed as Nazies, don't where their hats. Why don't the
holographic Nazies think this wierd?
In the streets of Saint Clarie, before B'Lanna enters the Nazi HQ, the closed
captioning goes on the blink. There are about 5 lines of dialogue that are not
heard. One of the townspeople even calls B'Lanna a "treacherous whore" before
spitting at her.
Unlike most movie shootouts, but a lot like real lifes hootouts, the battle in
the streets between 7&Neelex and the 2 Nazies ends with a dozen shots fired
and no hits. This makes sense!! It's hard to hit what you're aiming at with a
pistol when you are in a perfect stance, bracing with both arms. The way our
heroes & villians were shooting one handed, running, and not even botheing to
aim almost garuntees no wounds ... BUT Like all movie shootouts, casualties loose consciousness immeadiately after
suffering wounds that don't immediately cause a loss of consciousness.
That IFOS is still working! The computer recognises and obeys the comands of
the Hirojin and ... oh, never mind.
Major Complaint! -- The Hirogen leader speaks of several simulations that he
wants to put our heroes through. Then he suggests introducing the Borg and the
Battle of Wolf 359. Please, creators: Don't tease me like that! I actually
thought (foolishly) we were going to get to see a segment of the massacre by
the show's end. I like battles that involve multiple ships, a real rock 'em
sock 'em battle. ST:FC was great although brief, and Emissery was okay. But
I'd still like to see more of Wolf 359. Hinting that there might be a little
of this to come was a nasty thing to do!
PART 2
When the holo imaging explodes, all the holographic people vanish, but the
setting remains, and so do the clothes that our heros are wearing. Not to be
sleazy, but shouldn't the clothes have vanished too? True, I suppose you
could have had the computer synthisise your "holodeck clothes" before going
into the deck but several charachters changed clothes several times whilest in
the deck. Did the Hirogen give our heroes a few changes of clothes to use in
their game?
Cap'n Kath is being hunted by the Hirogen guy. He's carrying a holo-Mauser,
which of course, is effective because the holo-emmiters are everywhere.
Meanwhile, 7 sets off the "nuke-them-holograms" grenade. All holograms within
"x" meters are fried, leaving a big "bald spot" where no holograms exist. So,
when Hirogen guy chases Kath into the bald spot, his Mauser disappers. Okay,
fair enough. But then, the Hirogen, disarmed, runs away from the Captian.
Cap'n Kath then chases him with another Mauser Through the bald spot!! Is this
right? I don't think so.
NANJAQ - How many people are left on Voyager now? In her closing log entry,
Janeway mentions that both sides have taken heavy losses. Like how many? How
many losses are "heavy" when you' only have a crew of 150 or so?
NANJAO- In the entire two part series, I counted only one Voyager crewmember
who was not a regular, and that would be the guy who helped Harry with the
repairs. Maybe a few guys in sick bay.
The teeniest tiniest nit - Chakotay (as an American tanker) calls Janeway a
"gung ho kind of girl". According to the book "Loose Cannons and red Herrings"
(I don't know who wrote it) The phrase "Gung Ho" is Chineese for "Work
Together" US personell in Burma, China, and IndoChina (soon to be Viet Nam)
would shout this battle cry with their local allies, before rushing off to a
mission in WWII.
Later, in the Vietnam War, traditional veteren US soldiers would yell "Gung
Ho!" before a battle. The drafted soldiers would witness these exercieses, and
would be somewhat appalled at the "go get 'em" attitude of these vets, who
were all to eager to get into a slugfest weith the enemy. Thus, anyone itching
for action came to be described as "gung ho", which isn't always a complement.
My nit is this: If Chakotay had the mentality of the charachter he was
portraying, a US soldier in the European theater of WW2, He'd never know of
the phrase "gung ho". The only way he could would be if his charachter had
served in the Pacific theater before being transferred to the battle of St
Claire. (Possible, I suppose but not too likely.) And even then, it'd only
mean "Work together" It wouldn't be used to describe a person itching for a
brawl.
This is Brian H with your useless fact for the week!
Eric Brasure: Just a couple of comments. One: it seems to me like the creators came up with
the title before the episode. "The Killing Game" sounds suspenful, exciting,
frightening... and we get WWII with aliens. Oh my, what fun.
Two: This episode reminded me of the complete lack of logic in having
holographic projections become deadly when the "safety protocols" are turned
off. I *still* don't understand how refracted light can kill! Can anyone
explain this? It must be one of those things that just sounds good, I suppose.
If this is the best that Voyager can offer towards the end of its fourth
season, I think Paramount should cut its losses and say bye-bye to the
intrepid adventures of our Delta Quadrant friends. What's that word that seems
to have been banished from the Trek realm... oh right, characterization.
"Babylon 5" gets better and better all the time.
Diana McC: did I miss the first show?
Roxann Dawson's pregnancy? Why can't they just
do a show were she and Tom forget to use
protection?
Did any one notice when 7o9 told the Hirogen
that they would be assimilated by the Borg? Think
about it. Maybe she's not becoming as human as we
think she is or should be...
why was it the Hirogen can shut the Doc down
then Janeway can bring him back? If the Hirogen
changed his program so that he could not bring
himself back then how is it that any one elce can?
every one has pointed it out but it have to add
my two cents: When the holoemitters overloaded,
why did the holographic scenery remain? It was
just SO glaring!
Hilary Compton: All the nits I saw were already on the Brash Reflections list. I see it on
Saturday, so everyone else has already sent I their nits, but I am
wondering where Naomi (sp?) is in the middle of all of this.
Alex Smith: More nits for VOY Phil (I'm finally getting back into the swing of
nitpicking!):
OK, the Hirogen want holodeck technology because they haven't seen
anything like it before. So how can they make implants to work with
it?!?!
Minor nit correction: Someone stated that 7's WWII name was Mademoiselle
LeNeuf. It was actually Mademoiselle DeNeuf, which make more sense.
LeNeuf mean The Nine while DeNeuf means Of Nine.
Why wasn't WWII Chuckles startled by the Klingons? Did they look human
to him, just like the Hirogen look human to eveyone on the holodeck?
My fav line: "I'll reattach any severed limbs, just don't misplace
them." - Holodoc
So massive artillery shells and charges can damage the holodeck with
safeties off, but bullets can't? (The Hirogen Alpha refuses the request
for charges to blow the restaurant, he says to use hand weapons.)
Anyone else angry that a Nazi officer could persuade the Hirogen to
start fighting again? How did the Hirogen understand all those
Earth-centric ideas, like the Jews and such?
Uhh, how long is Janeway walking around with a bullet in her leg? Good
thing she blew up sickbay.
When 7 dropped the borg-grenade, wasn't she shot? Must have ricocheted
off her implants, or the crew must not care anymore. (I wasn't paying
attention; did she walk out of the holodeck after the emitters were
overloaded?)
Dustin Westfall: I have to agree this episode seemed to need some more work. They could
have, at the very least, played around with the characters, ie making
Janeway the rebel, putting 7 in charge, etc. That would have really
thrown everyone(which seems to have been the point with this episode).
Was anyone else yelling at Janeway during the teaser when she lifted her
arms for the blow? Talk about idiotic. He's 3 feet away and she exposes
her midsection!
I like the speech the Alpha Hirogen gave to the German in the office. It
pretty muched summed up what really happened. The Germans got cocky,
sure the world would fall on it's knees, but ended up on their own
knees.
Isn't the German father of B'ellana's holo-baby supposed to be the
second in command(Be'llana's holo-character said something to that
effect to Tom's holo-char. in the second part). So why is he taking
orders from the Beta Hirogen? Wouldn't that make him at least 3rd in
command?
Why are there access panels in the holo-simulation? In TNG, they called
the arch to access the computer, but now they have to find the console
WITHIN the simulation. This is very dificult, illustrated by the fact
that 7 had to infiltrate the local Nazi HQ to get to the console she
needed. I wonder how she would have gotten to it if they hadn't been
going there already.
Since Janeway was still in the simulation when she got
dressed in her commando gear, shouldn't they have disappeared in the end
after she went past the limit of the holo-grid, like the rifle and the
soldier, leaving her naked? (I know, TPTB wouldn't really like that, but
that should be what happened, right?)
I'm not sure about this one, but after the cease-fire is called, when
the German is talking to the Beta Hirogen about disobeying the
cease-fire, it looks like the medal on the German's left breast pocket
is falling off.
3/16/98 Update
Vince Hamilton: Well, I'm really not sure what to think of this episode. For me, the quality of the episode
seemed to change from scene. Also, I think that this should have been a three part episode.
I wasn't satisfied just hearing about the action. I would have loved to see some ship to
ship and hand to hand combat.
Early in part one, 7o9 says that she doesn't want to be singing "Moonlight Becomes You"
while the fightings going on. Couldn't help but notice that during ST First Contact a
singer is singing this song when Picard and Lily enter the 1940's holodeck program.
Towards the end of part 2, Janeway tells Paris to "convice" Chakotey to get his troops to
fight the Hirogen. Why does Paris have to "convince" Chakotey. At this point, everyone is
back to their old selves, including (presumably) Chakotey.
At the very end of part 2, Janeway says that both the Hirogen AND Voyager have sustained
"heavy" casualties. This kind of thing is okay for the Enterprise and the Defient, because
they can always get more people, but not Voyager! By heavy, what does she mean? Ten, 20,
40?!?! Voyager could be down to 100 officers or less!!! If they continue to lose officers
at this kind of rate, they'll be down to a skeleton crew in no time!
I'm hoping for better episodes in the future, but, alas, I doubt it.
Ed Watson: As I stated, I'm now in school, so I only saw "The Killing Game" on
Friday night. And since the Library is the only computer access I have,
I am now emailing you on Monday morning. Let me also state that I
waited till now to read the Brash reflections on this show.
My friend, I think you should be tired more often when you write your
Reflections. You didn't make me mad at you. I thought it was GREAT!!
Rant on, my dear chief!! I couldn't agree with you more. (Note from Phil: Well . . . I felt I got a bit beyond "light-heartedness and good cheer!")
I know all the nits have probably been picked, so let me just give my
thoughts. I see a pattern every time we get one of these two hour Star
Trek "events". Basically, we have always explained nits by saying that
the creators are really just here to tell good stories. Then these
"events" come along, and the good story theory just goes out the window.
These shows always seem to be about the "concept" or about the
"moments". I can picture the creators thinking on this. "Ya, I know
the story makes no sense, but we get to see the crew in 1996 LA, or we
get to see Seven of Nine let her down and sing, or we get to see Neelix
and Janeway act like Klingons, or......" You get the point.
If this is the way Star Trek is going in general, you may have to start
selling some fiction or get that programming job, because its days are
numbered, and you have no idea how much it pains me to say that.
If these Voyager people need some clues, how about showing them some
DS9? Not every show is great, but just last night I saw "Change of
Heart". It was a wonderful, character driven story, told within the
larger concept of what's going on in the Alpha quadrant war, without
throwing logic out with the bath water, if you get my drift. (Note from Phil: I enjoyed "Change of Heart" as well!)
Thanks for the great rant on this latest Voyager. I loved it!
Stephen Mendenhall: The Killing Game was exciting.
I'm not sure it's necessarily an unbelievable and terrible thing they've
got the holodecks now. That Hirogen who died probably left journals
detailing what he expected, they'd read those and maybe think about
doing what he suggested.
He didn't necessarily expect to have holodecks for *everything*, and for
always.
And they must have some people doing things other than hunting, since
they have starships and neural implants.
If they can use the holodecks why didn't they kill the crew and create
holodeck simulations who would be more cooperative? Then the holodeck
Harry would fix the ship and they'd revise Holodoc to be more
cooperative. Then the holodeck crew defeats the Hirogen and continue the
adventures of the Voyager, and a few years from now, in the 2 hour
series finale, the holodeck crew reaches Federation space and they're
downloaded into android bodies like what Data has.[grin]
Speaking of which, why don't they just set each season of Voyager 5-10
*years* into the future, so although we'd see the series finale maybe 4
years from now, it would be set in about the year 2440.
Clay: Concerning a ships counselor on Voyager, I seem to remember that Janeway said Voyager hadn't been assigned a counselor
since they were out only supposedly for 3 weeks for the mission to catch the
Maquis.
Matt Nelson: Nothing new, but a quick comment to the individual that complained
about the mispronunciations in the German language.
Actually, I too took four years of German, and am not claiming to be
an expert. However, German, like many other languages, has regional
pronunciations, and there are two MAJOR differences in the north and
south. I can't remember which is which, but the difference is just
that; one region pronounces the word "ich" ("I") like this: "ick";
the other pronounces it "ish". So there ya go.
Joshua Truax: Chief... One (in fact, I think more than one) nitpicker criticized this
episode for reducing the Nazis and those who fought them to glorified
cartoon characters. While I don't necessarily agree (for instance, I'd
hardly call that SS guy a cartoon), I should point out that this would
actually make sense. It's an unfortunate fact, but a fact nonetheless,
that as people and events fade into history they are often either
romanticized or caricaturized by those writing the history books -- or
in this case, the holo-novels. Indeed, we've already seen this sort of
thing with Zefram Cochrane in ST:FC. Picard and company all grew up
reading romanticized accounts of Cochrane and his warp flight, but when
they actually met Cochrane he was nothing like what their history books
said. If future historians are still prone to romanticizing people like
Cochrane, then it stands to reason that they are also prone to
caricaturizing people like the Nazis...
Kevin Loughlin: One thing I want to take care of immediately: Quite a few people are
wondering what happened to the rest of the crew, the Wildmans in
particular. One line of dialogue (it was even used in the preview!)
sorts out the whole mess. Doc explaining the situation to Seven:
"Half the crew is under lock and key. The others are fighting for
their lives on the holodeck."
This explains where the Wildmans are, how Harry gets the occasional
assistant ("Could you let Ens. Jones out for a bit? I need a
technobabblion expert"), and how we don't ever have to see the whole
crew.
I do believe the larger holodecks are meant to be larger than one
deck. We see the whole thing at the end of "Projections", for
example; it's at least 2 decks high.
In their haranguing about the dearth of character depth, the lack of
a 'good evil villain,' and such, everyone seems to be referring to
Trek in general. I'll grant that the Voyager folks are dry and
2-dimensional more often than not, but I have faith in DS9. Look at
Dukat in "Waltz" for a truly evil man; Worf and Dax in "Change of
Heart" for an actual, loving relationship; even, the entire cast most
of the time. DS9's characters will always be a cut above Voyager's,
and I hold to that.
Well, that's my anti-nits for today.
Corey Hines, Hamilton, ON: I wasn't sure I would contribute any nits
this being a very bad couple of episodes but why not? But only two.
The Hirogen said that they would recreate the battle of Wolf 359. That
battle was a strictly ship to ship battle. In Emissary(DS9), the Borg
completely destroyed the fleet. No Borg boarded the Saratoga. The only
way they could simulate a battle is to put the crew on bridges and have
the ships shake like crazy and have terminals blow up in their faces.
And since they'll lose anyway, this isn't showing how humans think.
One wonders why the Borg haven't assimilated the Hirogen already. As
the head one says their race is scattered across the quadrant. One must
have ventured near Borg space and would have been assimilated. And
since 7o9 can remember any civilization assimilated by the Borg, she
shouldn't have made the threats from the Borg to the one Hirogen.
Jason Gorell: I have to say that these rank as two of the best episodes the Voyager crew
have put out!!!!! Excellent work!!!!!
Here's something for thought: the Hirogen leader suggests that the battle of
Wolf 359 be the next simulation. Now this would be a killer episode!!!!!
With the safety protocols off-line there is nothing to keep the Hirogen and
everyone else from being assimilated by the holographic Borg. COOL!!!! Chalk
it up for next season. There is still a great deal of leeway with this topic
b/c the Hirogen now have holographic capability thanks to Janeway and Co.
At least there was the hint that there could be a confrontation between the
Hirogen and the Borg. Come to think of it...the Hirogen are supposedly spread
throughout the far reaches of space as was alluded to by the leader in his
reasoning to Janeway. Shouldn't they have run into the Borg by now? They
already met up with a member of Species 8742 that was involved with the Borg
battle.
Hey, Nelix was an awesome Klingon!!!! kkhap-LA!
Mary Frances Folz Donahue: What follows is well-informed (IMHO) but never the less a rant, so you may skip to the end, if you like.
I felt, having spent three months last year intensively studying
the Nazi regime last year that last week's voyager was rather inaccurate.
There must be some real francophiles among the staff writers, because this
episode promoted the myth- the lie, really- of the "glorious" French
Resistance. I read a whole book by an actual honest-to-God member of the
resistance, and believe me, they had neither the resources nor the
manpower that movies like the 1969 "4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse" or this
recent v'ger might lead you to believe. (As a sidenote, that is why many
*real* resistance leaders, not just the self-serving turncoats who were
moved to action after the Allies landed, felt very bitter towards Charles
de Gaulle. There he was, broadcasting in England, and while it was
important, he was not "running" the resistance, and the members of the
resistance knew very well that de Gaulle and his little army who ran in
after D-Day had little to with actually liberating France. I guess every
country is coming around to the truth about their role in Nazism, first
the Germans, then the French (the cracks in the "everyone was in the
resistance" myth started appearing in the late '80's) now the swiss,
perhaps soon the Lithuanians, and perhaps one day even the Austrians, who
have let Germany shoulder the blame for everything they've done in the
last 100 years. Sometime they ought to own up. If the French can do it
anyone can. So it is especially silly when the French people, a younger
generation, is finally facing the truth about their complacency during the
war, that Americans should still have to perpetuate myths. But enough
mindless ranting)
I was hoping when that Herogen dumped out all that fine french
wine, that the German, maybe a Rheinlander himself, might express some
dismay. Germans have a lot of respect for *things* (I know, half my family
is German-American), but unfortunately during WWII a lot of Germans showed
more respect for things than for people. (Let's not even talk about the
racial heirarchy of the Nazi state). And why, oh why, if they were were
going to trash his stuff, did they not ask for papers. The Nazis always,
always asked for papers. It was the easiest way to nab people, and a
pervasive form of intimidation. And if they had forgotten, Neelix (or
whoever he was) would have noticed. In fact, if I were Neelix, I would
have pulled out my papers as a show of good will. "See, you know me. I'm a
French 'aryan'. I'm clean."
But what really got me, and made me forget anything else I may
have thought was innaccurate (besides, if it were innaccurate, they could
always blame their inadequate computer database, or something along those
lines), was that sign in German in front of the Gestapo building. They
even did a close up on that sign (in part one, I believe) black letters on
yellow background, in that distinctly German rounded sans-serif font.
Well, I know German, and I think our German nitpickers were laughing when
they saw that sign too, because it was stolen from a gas station. It says
"No Smoking or open flame"
I love it when they do stuff like that.
Don Ferguson: ok ok ok... you got me *hangs head in shame* many of my fellow nitpickers
pointed out my error on Japanese Americans fighting in WWII....I admit it
has been almost a decade since I did any reading on the subject. I thank
you for correcting me on my nit :) ALTHOUGH...*wink wink*that still doesn’t
explain why Paris let him continue to walk around this super high tech nazi
compound if he was convinced that Harry was just a civilian (as Harry
claimed to be) If I was in the middle of a war,deep in enemy territory and
I saw a civilian walking around..even if I thought he was one of my
country's civilians.. would at least escort him back to my commander or
Base or SOMEplace where they can ask this guy just how he go there and what
he was doing walking around there with that handy lil silver suitcase ;)
on to the good stuff.
In the beginning when Janeway gets stabbed, it looks pretty bad, I mean she
was just gurgling...couldn’t even speak (maybe choking up blood?) but I
guess she was just being dramatic because it is obvious her wounds were not
too serious because after the teaser when we see her on the Bio bed in
sickbay... she is out of klingon disguise...so they rushed her to sickbay,
then stopped and removed her cosmetic surgery? well I guess it could have
been a holographic forehead, after all Toress has a holo baby right? but as
they showed in the end of Part two..those simulations are harder to get rid
of then real cosmetic surgery, they overload the entire holo grid and most
of the holo city is still there, just the ppl vanished and torress still
has her holo pregnancy.
Talking about blowing the holo grid...what happens to Doc? he is after all
a simulation right? he was not wearing his mobile emitter (this is proven
by the way the hirogen shuts him off with the press of a button on a
control panel and by the way Ens. Kim and Cpt. Janeway keep summoning him
to different parts of the ship) so when they blow the Grid... he doesn’t
have a place to go because they blew sickbay too (literally) and his mobile
emitter WAS in sickbay.. no? where else do they normally keep it when its
not in use? did the Hirogen take it? that would make sense...they want holo
tech. and are tearing poor Voyager apart for it but here is a wonderful
little piece of 29th century holographic tech that fits in your pocket! if
the Hirogen didn’t take it back to one of their ships to study, I say they
made a big goof!
The Alfa Hirogen while discussing the next hunt to his Beta says that he
has discovered their next prey, he they turns the monitor around to show
the Borg and he goes on to describe Wolf359... so if the Borg are the
prey...that means in this hunt the Hirogen would be on the starfleet ships.
Correct me if I am wrong here but didn’t the federation get its butt wooped
at wolf359?
Another thing to ponder, in each simulation, the Hirogen put themselves
against the Voyager crew (with the exeption of one of them fighting along
side Nelix in a Kingon simulation) so that means that not only would the
Hirogen be serving as Starfleet officers....but our Famous Starfleet
officers would be playing the Roles of the borg??? (a very interesting
twist) and as someone mentioned before, without safeties...would the crew
really be assimilated in order to play their roles? And as we saw at the
end of The WWII simulation, hologrids were at every part of the ship and
characters where running all over the place...if the Borg assimilate all
the hirogen during the simulation, how long do you think it would take them
to figure out how to leave the holodeck,then they could take over the rest
of the ship and use replicators to issue themselves each a 29th century
mobile emitter and go about assimilating the other Hirogen ships and the
rest of this sector... EEGADS!
Its Late so I will wrap things up. I agree with the Chief and others in the guild that think we need more
Truly evil enemies, I think you can make an enemy race that is truly Evil
(by our standards) without keeping them two dimensional, why not have a
race that has no redeeming qualities yet spend a little time every few
episodes showing things from there point of view... we would understand
them and they would take on a more realistic feel but we still might not
agree with them (founders and Jem'hadar)
Thats about it for now folks... until the next new Voyager ep. LIVE LONG AND NITPICK!
Aaron Munn: First, I don't think Chicotay as an Army captain has
the authority to call a cease fire, that power is reserved for a commander-in-
chief, and during WWII, the US commander in chief's terms of surrender for the
Axis were fairly steep, and a measely cease fire would have been unacceptable.
Second, for a race that doesnt know holodecks, the Hirojens certainly do know
how to wire peoples brains to one. Perhaps they have the Paklid syndrome.
They have all this stuff, yet suppossedly they are stupid, and yet their stuff
works on a routine basis. And whats all this ranting by the Hirojen leader
about their culture falling appart, it seems to me they have a fair amount of
tech and culture, and from a anthropological standpoint, they are at least as
culturally feasable a